From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 6 22:08:20 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:08:20 -0400 Subject: [Tommies] Thomson References: Message-ID: <87AD18D956314606812EABACF8EB849D@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Gwendolyn, Sir Thomas Steward died without "legitimate" issue. That doesn't mean he died without issue. The Thomson of Corstorphine line cites Sir Thomas Stewart and the genealogy was developed by one of England's great genealogists, Theodore Radford Thomson, . It is published in Burke's. TR Thomson also wrote A Catalogue of British Family Histories. I would love to see TR Thomson's research notes but have yet to locate them. I have found evidence that links the Forresters of Corstorphine with the Earl of Mar and his son Thomas. But I have yet to find the "missing link." Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: Gwendolyn Meade To: gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 1:26 PM Subject: Thomson Genevieve: I am a descendant of this line through Mehitable Thomson, d. John. I have been reading your articles on David Thomson that are on line. The whole idea is fascinating, but from what I have gathered, Sir Thomas (Stewart) s. Earl of Mars, died without issue. I'm sure from what you have stated in your articles, that David Thomson was a gentleman and from Scotland. I just can't see that he is in direct line from Robert I. Aside from the fact that Sir Thomas died w/o issue, your theory is compelling. I tried to google Brian Smith to read about his challenge to the Sinclair/New World theory . I don't even know what that controversy is all about, as you didn't go into it in any of the articles that I read. I don't pretend to have the knowledge about all of this that you seem to have, and the names are totally foreign to me, as I have not read about, or researched, nobility/royalty in depth. The theory itself does draw one to it and I would like to know more. Also, I would like to read your book. Sincerely, Gwendolyn Meade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20091006/c90abc0b/attachment.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Wed Oct 7 16:45:18 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 16:45:18 -0400 Subject: [Tommies] Thomson References: <87AD18D956314606812EABACF8EB849D@YOUR8E5CB830F1> <1BCCB1F16FBA45589D62C6172BE506FB@GSMPC> Message-ID: Gwendolyn, Typically legitimate issue is noted and others are not. Sometimes, illegitimate offspring are noted when they accomplish something or are given titles. Here's a link to the Thomson of Corstorphine genealogy as recorded by Burke. The genealogy is accepted by the Lord Lyon's Office in Scotland. David Thomson is the son of Rev. Richard Thomson. http://books.google.com/books?id=wEFuRPsYHwwC&pg=PT1404&dq=Theodore+Radford+Thomson&lr=&ei=zfzMStDDF6SgM-qivKEK#v=onepage&q=Theodore%20Radford%20Thomson&f=false Genevieve Re: Theodore Radford Thomson Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: Gwendolyn Meade To: gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: Thomson Genevieve: I don't mean to be hard to get along with, as I recognize that you have taken on a monumental task, and have done an excellent job putting all of your circumstantial evidence together. I am descended from this David ( I didn't know anything about the father of John Thompson/Thomson, until I happened upon your articles) through his son John and John's dau., Mehitible, who married Samuel Hayward. I'll be right up front: I wouldn't be disappointed to find out that I descend from The Bruce. But all of that aside, I have read that Sir Thomas died w/o issue, period. It didn't say w/o legitimate issue. I am on your side though, and hope that you can get it all together. I do admire your tenacity. Would like to know when your book will be out. Have you sent copies of your articles to NEHGS or TAG? They should have access to them, as they are excellent, and give alot of info on David Thomson. Gwendolyn Meade ----- Original Message ----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com To: Gwendolyn Meade Cc: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Thomson Gwendolyn, Sir Thomas Steward died without "legitimate" issue. That doesn't mean he died without issue. The Thomson of Corstorphine line cites Sir Thomas Stewart and the genealogy was developed by one of England's great genealogists, Theodore Radford Thomson, . It is published in Burke's. TR Thomson also wrote A Catalogue of British Family Histories. I would love to see TR Thomson's research notes but have yet to locate them. I have found evidence that links the Forresters of Corstorphine with the Earl of Mar and his son Thomas. But I have yet to find the "missing link." Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: Gwendolyn Meade To: gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 1:26 PM Subject: Thomson Genevieve: I am a descendant of this line through Mehitable Thomson, d. John. I have been reading your articles on David Thomson that are on line. The whole idea is fascinating, but from what I have gathered, Sir Thomas (Stewart) s. Earl of Mars, died without issue. I'm sure from what you have stated in your articles, that David Thomson was a gentleman and from Scotland. I just can't see that he is in direct line from Robert I. Aside from the fact that Sir Thomas died w/o issue, your theory is compelling. I tried to google Brian Smith to read about his challenge to the Sinclair/New World theory . I don't even know what that controversy is all about, as you didn't go into it in any of the articles that I read. I don't pretend to have the knowledge about all of this that you seem to have, and the names are totally foreign to me, as I have not read about, or researched, nobility/royalty in depth. The theory itself does draw one to it and I would like to know more. Also, I would like to read your book. Sincerely, Gwendolyn Meade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20091007/757742e6/attachment.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 30 03:16:50 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:16:50 -0400 Subject: [Tommies] ATTN: University Librarian: Helen Durndell re: David Thomson and the Americana Exhibit Message-ID: <0382B098896A45F1972476D921BB7CB9@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Blank 211 Dana Road, Orange, Massachusetts 01364 USA Helen Durndell, University Librarian Special Collections Department, Library, University of Glasgow, Hillhead Street, G12 8QE, Scotland, United Kingdom Dear Ms Durndell, I have enjoyed reviewing the Library's online exhibit, "Americana." ( http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/exhibns/Americana/IndexAmericana.html ) Along with published books and manuscripts, you also include an autograph letter written by Robert Trumbell as a member of the original Scottish expedition to Darien. Would you consider including a letter written by the Scotsman, David Thomson to Thomas Howard, Earl of Arundel, dated "the first of Julie 1625 Plymesland in New England." It is a fascinating historical document. The letter is Number 275 of Arundel?s Autograph Letters. A copy of the original, which is housed in the Duke of Norfolk's Library, Arundel Castle in Sussex, can be found at the web address: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/arundel_letter.html Thomson is considered to be the founder of New Hampshire (per a 1622 grant) and was appointed acting governor of Massachusetts under the 1624 Massachusetts grant to Robert Gorges (son of Ferdinando) by the Council for New England. (As you will note, the signature at the bottom of the letter addressed to Arundel is "David Thomson." It is not the Anglicized, Thompson.) At the close of the Gorges patent is the following, "And lastly know ye, that we the said Council have deputized, authorized and appointed, and in our place and stead have put David Thomson, Gent., or in his absence any other person that shall be their Governor, or other officer unto the said Council, to be our true and lawful attorney and attorneys, and in our name and stead to enter the said lands...and take possession and seisen thereof...for us and in our name to deliver the same unto the said Robert Gorges or his heirs..." The document is signed by King James's beloved cousin, the Duke of Lenox, the Marquis of Hamilton, the Earl of Arundell and Surrey as well as by Sir Robert Mansell, Doctor Barnaby Goach, treasurer, and William Boles, clerk of the Council. Thomas Morton, in his New English Canaan, makes reference to Thomson's Scottish origins. "...Therefore since I have had the approbation of Sir Christophe gardiner Knight an able gentl. that lived amongsts them & of David Thompson a Scottish gentl. that likewise was conversant with those people both Scollers and Travellers that were diligent of taking notice of these things as men of good judgement. And that have bin in those parts any time; besides others of lesse, now I am bold to conclude that the originall of the Natives of New England may be well conjectured to be from the scattered Trojans, after such time as Brutus departed from Latium." (Chapter II) Evidence of Thomson?s Scottish origin is also found in Chapter 6 of Edward Winslow?s "Good Newes from New England," which was published in London in 1624. "...At the same time Captain Standish being formerly employed by the Governor to buy provisions for the refreshing of the Colony, returned with the same, accompanied with one Mr. David Tomson, a Scotchman, who also that Spring began a Plantation twenty-five leagues northeast from us, near Smiths Isles, at a place called Pascatoquack, where he liketh well..." Sir Ferdinando Gorges was joined in his efforts to colonize the northern portion of the eastern seaboard by the Scottish Knight, Sir William Alexander, aka the Earl of Stirling. Sir William Alexander had been tutor to King James' son Henry, and later served as Secretary of State of Scotland under King Charles I. David Thomson?s past appears to be linked to this Scottish Lord as evidenced by a letter which is preserved by the Massachusetts Historical Society in Boston. The Earl of Stirling's interests were north of New England in Nova Scotia, yet he is clearly concerned about Thomson's son. On July 4, 1637, Sir William Alexander, writing as the Earl of Stirling, composed a joint letter to the Authorities of the Massachusetts Bay Company, in regard to the rights of John Thomson, heir of David Thomson, and his claim to the ownership of Thomson's Island. Alexander is joined in the letter by Lord Edward Gorges and Sir Ferdinando Gorges. In the original document, the uppermost signature is "ESterling," beneath it is "EdGorges." The bottom of the document bears the scrawled signature of Sir Ferdinando Gorges. (The Massachusetts Historical Society has indexed the document as a letter by Sir William Alexander.) The letter begins "on behalf of the heir John Thompson the sonne of David Thompson sometyme sirvant to the Councille for those affaires." The concern expressed was that John's mother, Amias, had since her marriage to another man (Samuel Maverick) allowed for the disposing of her son's rightful property (Thomson?s Island) which "his Father had so hardly obtayned." Extracts from the Council for New England records reveal that one of Thomson?s roles was to inform the Lords, and thereby His Majesty, of the concerns and activities of the Council. He also acted as an agent on behalf of the Council in a variety of other matters. Thomson's grant was for 6,000 acres and an island. He also held a grant for Thom(p)son's Island in Boston Harbor, Massachusetts. 5th of July 1622: "It is ordered that David Thomson do attend the Lords, with a petition to his majesty for forfeits committed by Thomas Weston, also to solicit the Lords for procuring from his Majesty a proclamation concerning the fishermen of the western parts. Likewise to procure some course for punishing their contempt of authority." (6) The petition was acknowledged by the King on the 6 November 1622 with a "Proclamation Prohibiting Interloping and Disorderly Trading to New England in America." "Whereby, having received certain information of many and intolerable abuses offered by sundry interlopers, irregular and disobedient persons....We for reformation and prevention of these or the like evils hereafter, and for the more clear declaration of our kingly resolution and just intents, both to maintain our royal grant already made, and to uphold and encourage ...the undertakers of those designs...do hereby straightly charge and command that none of our subjects whatsoever...in New England, presume from henceforth to frquent those coasts...otherwise by the license of the said counsel or according to the orders established by our privy council..." (7) July 24, 1622 was the date of the first division of the Patent for New England by the Council for New England. As the record reveals, David Thomson was to meet with the Council Lords, as agent for the Council for New England. The "bounds for the dividends" of the patents for the Lord Duke of Lennox and the Earl of Arundel were also determined at this meeting. (8) 24th of July 1622: "...Mr. Thomson is appointed to attend the Lords, for a warrant to Mr. Attorney-General for drawing the new patent, Sir Henry Spilman to attend on the same subject." (9) This was also the date that the "Tenure for Private Planters" was drawn up. The Tenure stated that "private planters shall hold of the Chamber of State to be established there, and shall have power to create their own tenures to such as shall hold under them." Through this, Thomson?s Indenture may have been legally established. In addition, the following entry determined that the feudal system of Old England be continued in New England. "The country is to be called Nova Albion. That there may be power given in to grant patent to create titles of honor and precedency so as they differ in nomination from the titles used here in England." (10) Who exactly was David Thomson? Based on years of research, published by the Scottish Genealogical Society under the heading, "David Thomson, the Scottish Founder of New Hampshire... a Gentleman, and a Scholar," I have come to believe that David Thomson is of Corstorphine, son of Rev. Richard Thomson. David's stepmother was Agnes Foulis whose niece was married to Thomas Hamilton, the Earl of Haddington who served as Secretary of State to King James I at the time of Thomson's grant. David's step-brother, Adam Hepburn (later a Senator) served as the legal clerk to Haddington. One of Agnes Foulis' nephews was Sir David Foulis who accompanied King James IV of Scotland to England in 1603 when he was crowned James I of England. David Foulis was the Scottish Ambassador to England during the reign of Queen Elizabeth. He later served as cofferer to Prince Henry at the time when Sir William Alexander served as tutor to the Prince. According to Theodore Radford Thomson, the Thomsons of Corstorphine were direct descendants of Alexander, the Earl of Mar through his illegitimate son, Sir Thomas Stewart. Alexander Thomson (1460 - 1513) married Margaret Forrester, great-grandchild of Sir John Forrester of Corstorphine, Lord High Chamberlain. Rev. Richard Thomson's Kirk teinds and appointments were from King James. There is also a letter from Mary Queen of Scots, shortly before her death, which suggests a possible involvement with the appointment: I have granted to one of Thomson?s sons a prebend, not being able at present to do more for him.? (William K. Boyd, editor, State Papers, Relating to Scotland and Mary, Queen of Scots 1547-1603, Vol VII. A.D. 1584-1585, Edinburgh: H.M. General Register House, 1913, 341-342.) I appreciate your taking the time to read this rather lengthy "petition." I hope you will consider adding Thomson's letter to your exhibit of "Americana." Sincerely, Genevieve Cora Fraser gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20091030/c719b2f8/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20091030/c719b2f8/attachment-0001.gif