[Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
maaisha at aol.com
maaisha at aol.com
Thu Feb 19 08:11:20 EST 2009
I think standardized spelling is quite new. I once read that John Adams (or maybe John Q.) said he couldn't respect a man who could only spell a word one way! Even my grandfather, when told he had misspelled his son's name, said it didn't matter how he spelled it - Fredrick was Frederick any way you looked at it. My daughter's Middle Eastern in-laws are quite fluid today about the spelling of their names. I know some of my Irish and English ancestors added or dropped a final e depending upon whether they were in England or Ireland at the time, to conform with the custom of the country. (This is painful for someone who taught spelling for many years.) I don't think one can read very much into spelling variations, although they are certainly worth noticing.
Lois
-----Original Message-----
From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 8:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Betty Lou,
Another clue I uncovered is a document where a John
Thompson was fined for being drunk after returning from Maverick's house.
I have often wondered if he had a drinking problem which caused him to loose
everything until his darling Sarah helped save him. If you recall, John
opened the first tavern (ordinary house I think they were called) in
Mendon. If he was a strict Puritan I doubt that would have been an
option.
Genevieve
PS Also I saw a match betw
een the John Thompson
flowing signature in relation to Noodles Island with the flowing handwriting of
the partial signature we have from John of Mendon. As for spelling - it
changed from day to day for some. But if a Scottish Thomson was born in
England, chances are he would use the Thompson spelling. David Thomson's
signature is clearly the Scottish spelling, yet the grant for Massachusetts
lists him as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. - as do the Minutes of the Council for
New England meetings.
----- Original Message -----
From:
gcfraser at peoplepc.com
To: Discussion list for David THOMSON &
Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:16
PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son
of David
Betty Lou,
I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty
Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on
Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years
ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in
one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on
Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does
mention the relationship.)
The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I
uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other
areas and
won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have
every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start
unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue
where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything
else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work
on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the
Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background.
Genevieve
Genevieve Fraser
Faculty
University of Phoenix
1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu
gcfraser at peoplepc.com
(978)
544-1872
(978) 846-8719 (cell)
Pacific Time Zone
----- Original Message -----
From:
morrisb
To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON
& Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59
PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson,
son of David
Genevieve,
I really appreciate your comments
and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a
relationship with David. Can
you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William
Crowne? How do we know th
at
Samuel Maverick was in
Weymouth/Mendon?
Col. Amy was great about putting the
Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn’t give any sources – at
least not that I know of.
Betty
Lou
-----Original
Message-----
From:
tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com
[mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of
gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41
PM
To: Discussion list for
David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson,
son of David
Betty
Lou,
John
Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a
three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they
knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both
deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a
young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in
certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled
in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The
others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and
feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and=2
0Jews at one
point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and
moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT.
Genevieve
----- Original
Message -----
From: morrisb
To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON
& Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Thursday,
February 12, 2009 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies]
John Thompson, son of David
Genevieve,
Your comments of February
3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that
our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the
connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John
Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for
sources that would place them there.
What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John)
Thompson? I know Samuel
Maverick was John's stepfather.
If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them
out.
Thanks!
Betty Lou
-----Original
Message-----
From:
tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com
[mailto:tommies-bounc
es at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of
gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45
PM
To: Discussion list for
David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson,
son of David
Betty,
Thanks for taking
the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on
Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are
looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors
who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for
meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians
turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War.
Along with the
date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and
William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with
Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his
3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held
land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while
the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the
Commonwealth.
Refer back to the
Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New
20 England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To
use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at
least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle,
that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson,
Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619.
Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South -
not flattering.
John was referred
to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost
everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than
one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to
be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot
be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a
ship's master!!
Best
Wishes,
Genevieve
PS The
Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon
Research Centers.
----- Original
Message -----
From: morrisb
To: 'Discuss
ion list for David THOMSON
& Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Tuesday, February
03, 2009 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies]
John Thompson, son of David
Genevieve,
Yes, I
believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee
Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a
hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She
wrote:
"Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are
two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The
first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28)
and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged
alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of
the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from
manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)"
I asked
Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to
look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of
Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in
mind. She reported as follows:
20
"The two
books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to
make copies from either:
1.
The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15,
1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed
transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts
towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything
definitive to your David/John Thompson
question.
2. Mendon Families by Mrs.
Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5
v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z.
Contained the
following:
David and Amyes
(sic)
son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m.
Sarah
son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful
Woodland
dau Mehitable (no birth date
given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670
dau
Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and
Catherine
A list of John's- b. 1642-
children was also given as follows.
John
1667-1749 one of the early settlers of
Bellingham
Sarah 12 May
1669
Ebenezer 1 Oct
1677
Samuel 4 Feb
1679-1704
Woodland 27 Jan
1681
Benjamin 17 Sept
1681
David 24 May
1687
Hannah 3 Aug
1689
There was no indication of
sources or mention of Thompson's
Island."
Ms.
Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested
that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson
of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same
year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's
timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing
that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's
article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue
claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to
doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking
gun"!
Betty
Lou.
-----Original
Message-----
From:
20 tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On
Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Monday,
February 02, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion list
for David THOMSON & Amias COLE
descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies]
John Thompson, son of David
Betty,
Is the Mendon
Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at
the top of the Thompson section?
Genevieve
From: morrisb
To:
'Discussion list for David
THOMSON & Amias COLE
descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Monday,
February 02, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: [Tommies]
John Thompson, son of David
To Gen Fraser and
all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David
and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I
followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island
Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the
reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were
hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the
library's list to look at these two
=2
0items.
One
was The Proprietors'
Records of Mendon, mostly land
records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John
Thompson question."
The second
is Mendon Families
by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about
1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon
Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no
sources.
I continue
to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and
Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men
were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we
need more than this to convince other
genealogists.
Betty Lou
-----Original
Message-----[Betty Lou
Morris] ,
From:
tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On
Behalf Of morrisb
Sent: Wednesday, December 31,
2008 3:41 PM
To: 'Discussion list for David
THOMSON & Amias COLE
descendantsandresearchers.'
Subject: Re:
[Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from
Alberta
Thanks, Gen,
for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the
same person as John20Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies
has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1)
the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does
anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th
century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island
Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at
the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on
the Tommies list have access to that
library?
Betty
Lou
-----Original
Message-----
From:
tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On
Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Friday,
December 26, 2008 11:24 PM
To: Discussion list
for David THOMSON & Amias COLE
descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies]
Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta
Betty
Lou,
I don't have the
facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's
son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early
19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that
lists David as the father of John.
Genevieve
----- Original
Message -----
0A
From: Quintin
Thompson
To:
Discussion list for David
THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants
andresearchers.
Sent: Friday,
December 26, 2008 11:11 AM
Subject: Re:
[Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from
Alberta
Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave
remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe
you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint
On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb
wrote:
Let me add
my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty
scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an
ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John
Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John
Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this,
please let us know.
Betty Lou
Morris
Mount
Clemens, MI
-----Original
Message-----
From:
tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:t
ommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On
Behalf Of Alyce Elliott
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008
8:36 PM
To: dick at hodgman.org;
Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants
andresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome
Sharon Thompson from Alberta
Hi Sharon, thanks for joining
us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson
-- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including
Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm
eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line
here:
http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm
Do
we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome
to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from
you.
Alyce
Thompson Elliott
At 10:11 AM
12/14/2008, you wrote:
Tommies,
On Monday,
11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward
Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that
Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to
reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by
email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the
Tommies website. She has joined our emai
l list.
Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our
group.
--Dick
============================
Dick
Hodgman
dick at hodgman.org
http://hodgman.org/
p.s.
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