[Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
gcfraser at peoplepc.com
gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Wed Feb 18 20:42:58 EST 2009
Betty Lou,
Another clue I uncovered is a document where a John Thompson was fined for being drunk after returning from Maverick's house. I have often wondered if he had a drinking problem which caused him to loose everything until his darling Sarah helped save him. If you recall, John opened the first tavern (ordinary house I think they were called) in Mendon. If he was a strict Puritan I doubt that would have been an option.
Genevieve
PS Also I saw a match between the John Thompson flowing signature in relation to Noodles Island with the flowing handwriting of the partial signature we have from John of Mendon. As for spelling - it changed from day to day for some. But if a Scottish Thomson was born in England, chances are he would use the Thompson spelling. David Thomson's signature is clearly the Scottish spelling, yet the grant for Massachusetts lists him as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. - as do the Minutes of the Council for New England meetings.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com
To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Betty Lou,
I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.)
The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background.
Genevieve
Genevieve Fraser
Faculty
University of Phoenix
1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu
gcfraser at peoplepc.com
(978) 544-1872
(978) 846-8719 (cell)
Pacific Time Zone
----- Original Message -----
From: morrisb
To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Genevieve,
I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon?
Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn't give any sources - at least not that I know of.
Betty Lou
-----Original Message-----
From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM
To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Betty Lou,
John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT.
Genevieve
----- Original Message -----
From: morrisb
To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Genevieve,
Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks!
Betty Lou
-----Original Message-----
From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM
To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Betty,
Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War.
Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth.
Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering.
John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!!
Best Wishes,
Genevieve
PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers.
----- Original Message -----
From: morrisb
To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Genevieve,
Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote:
"Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)"
I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows:
"The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either:
1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question.
2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z.
Contained the following:
David and Amyes (sic)
son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah
son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland
dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670
dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine
A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows.
John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham
Sarah 12 May 1669
Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677
Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704
Woodland 27 Jan 1681
Benjamin 17 Sept 1681
David 24 May 1687
Hannah 3 Aug 1689
There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island."
Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"!
Betty Lou.
-----Original Message-----
From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
Betty,
Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section?
Genevieve
From: morrisb
To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David
To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items.
One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question."
The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources.
I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists.
Betty Lou
-----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] ,
From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM
To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.'
Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta
Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library?
Betty Lou
-----Original Message-----
From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM
To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta
Betty Lou,
I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John.
Genevieve
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintin Thompson
To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers.
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta
Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint
On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote:
Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know.
Betty Lou Morris
Mount Clemens, MI
-----Original Message-----
From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM
To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers.
Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta
Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here:
http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm
Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you.
Alyce Thompson Elliott
At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote:
Tommies,
On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list.
Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group.
--Dick
============================
Dick Hodgman
dick at hodgman.org
http://hodgman.org/
p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list.
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