From morrisb at libcoop.net Mon Feb 2 15:28:33 2009 From: morrisb at libcoop.net (morrisb) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:28:33 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: <000301c96b98$c9929e40$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <001001c9857d$337ff5c0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ____________________________________________________________ Talk all you want. Click now for a new, extended life cell phone battery! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8TQg9uZodVzNDp74WgUf3HeDUcPicy957lWQ96r1x1tSYcx/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090202/12d1a410/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Mon Feb 2 23:15:31 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:15:31 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <001001c9857d$337ff5c0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <4B92CF2DA577473DBDE4BC9C0FD454FF@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090202/1b74c07f/attachment.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Tue Feb 3 00:24:19 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 00:24:19 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <001001c9857d$337ff5c0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> <4B92CF2DA577473DBDE4BC9C0FD454FF@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Message-ID: <8FFCDF2A5F9E4092BE9F7EB992A27257@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Betty, The same author wrote on Medfield Families. Genevieve Search Statement : TITLECL Mendon Families Number of record(s) found: 1 # Select Format Title or Object Author/Creator Date Call # 1 Book Mendon families. a.. Haviland, Elizabeth Seamans, 1862-1929. 1901 F74.M59 H28 From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090203/035bcd98/attachment-0001.html From morrisb at libcoop.net Tue Feb 3 15:00:30 2009 From: morrisb at libcoop.net (morrisb) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:00:30 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: <4B92CF2DA577473DBDE4BC9C0FD454FF@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Message-ID: <000401c98652$c9a2cde0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John?s- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson?s Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my lin e here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9WxjvUmZjCdXP62hL0ZVsNbvHDM8UOHsTPd6tYJVJG4GEy9/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090203/a9d75a0a/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Tue Feb 3 21:44:50 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:44:50 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000401c98652$c9a2cde0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = -------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090203/330a3511/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Thu Feb 5 14:55:54 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:55:54 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000401c98652$c9a2cde0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <736B49FA829049C0B140292E65A82D3F@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Quint, "As is supposed..." means it is pure speculation with nothing to back it up. That is why I have traveled to Scotland and England in an attempt to track down primary source materials. That is also why I believe that David Thomson of Corstorphine is the only one by that name from that time period that fits all the criteria. He is a well-educated, Scottish "gentleman" (strict rules as to who would qualify) who was a scholar (David from Corstorphine was a Philosophy major at the University of Edinburg) and well connected (through his step mother, Agnes Foullis) he was of the family of the Sec'y of State of Scotland Thomas Hamilton, the Earl of Haddington; David Foulis, the ambassador from Scotland to England, and his step-brother, Adam Hepburn, was the legal clerk to Haddington and became a senator. Thomas Morton in the New English Canaan describes David as a Scottish Gentleman, a scholar and traveler. Others also described Thomson as a Scotsman. How would they know this if he didn't have a Scottish accent. David signed his name as "Thomson" though English documents list him as Thompson (the English variant of the name.) An individual would be jailed if they referred to themselves as a Gentleman and they were not. David is referred to as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. in the 1623 Massachusetts grant naming him Governor on behalf of the Council for New England. It is signed by Ludvick Stuart, the Duke of Lennox (King James's beloved cousin), the Marquis of Hamilton (highest ranking, next to the Duke, who use to ride through Corsptorphine on horseback) and Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel who was the Earl Marshall - in charge of heraldry for England. David wrote a three page letter to the Earl that he preserved in his library (it is posted on the Tommie website.) I have never found a reference to David among Sir Ferdinando Gorges papers, nor does David reference him though they worked together as peers for the Council for New England and clearly knew one another. Gorges obtained power after King James, Hamilton, and Lennox died suddenly (suspicious circumstances) and Arundel was sent to the Tower because his son married Arabella Stuart which made the family eligible for assuming the throne of England. He was later released and William Crowne became his clerk as a young man. Later, we find Crowne living in Mendon where he knew John Thompson. David and Amias wrote fluently as documents prove. Our Thompson ancestors also seem to have been quite fluent. Even my grandfather in the 1700s in Richmond, Vermont wrote fluently and therefore was a town official - I have copies of his handwriting I obtained from the Vermont archives. To make an assumption that David Thom(p)son was the son of a household servant was based on finding someone of that name in the records from the outskirts of London where Ferdinando Gorges once lived. I have never found evidence (only speculation) that his family was connected with the Gorges household. Later Gorges is at the port in Plymouth where a David Thom(p)son married Amias Coles. An English minister writing the name into a registry would spell it with a P. David spelled his name without a P - based on his signature. The idea that a household servant from London would somehow transform himself into a well-respected and highly connected and educated Scottish Gentleman who is given grants equal to a Barony is ridiculous. The man who conducted the genealogical investigation into the Thomson's of Corstorphine was one of the most respected genealogist of his time - Theodore Radford Thomson - (A Catalogue of British Family Histories) I have been able to verify most of what he writes but cannot find the final link tying him to Robert II of Scotland - though based on everything else around this family - it appears to be so - including David's father, Magister Rev. Richard Thomson's preferment's from King James I- he averaged close to 600 lbs per year in the late 1500s - not your typical parish minister's salary. David is named heir to his father in 1607 (when he came of age) and is also listed in a lawsuit with his step mother to obtain some teinds from one of his father's former parishes. Alexander, the Earl of Home is their lawyer - a favorite of the King. The book on the Thomson's of Corstorphine mentions David but focuses on Theodore Radford Thomson's ancestors, as might be expected. The family had married into the Forrester's of Corstophine and shared a Sinclair grandmother whose brother built Roslyn Castle (check out the DaVinci code.) Their father, Henry Sinclair, legend has it, traveled to North America 100 years prior to Columbus. Genevieve PS The Mendon genealogies mention the name Ferdinando - obviously, the families had been tied in with Ferdinando Gorges. Robert, his son, had traveled to Massachusetts to claim his grant but couldn't stand the place and left. Some of his companions stayed on - including the gentleman, Samuel Maverick. Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Hi, No source that I can see. He does say, "---as is supposed." As to whether or not he is referring to 'brothers' or 'patriarchs' I do not know. I first came across this book ( a good copy) in the History section of the Library at Toledo, Ohio while researching Earl Thompson, son of Charles Blancher Thompson. At the time I thought it would help in my quest so I made copies of some pages. Later, I had gone to the Woburn, MA library because one family tree of CBT went north from Mendon, MA to Woburn. At the Woburn library there was another copy of the book. It was well worn (hold together by a ribbon to contain loose pages) and with handwritten entrys. I made some copies from this book. The recent questions on the Tommies web site caused me to revisit what I had copied thus the inquiry. At least Durham is a common denominator. :) Quint -----Original Message----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com To: quintinth at aol.com Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:12 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Quint. What were the sources for Rev. Thompson's claim? Or was it speculation? There was another Thompson family that settled in the Durham NH area. A long time ago I tried to make a link and there didn't seem to be one. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent:20Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Hi, Backing up some generations I have a question. What about Robert? In the book 'Memorial of James Thompson--" by Rev. Leander Thompson, A.M. Boston, 1887 on page 6 it says, "Another family is said to have settled in or near Portsmouth, N.H., about 1623, or a little later. Two BROTHERS. David and Robert, as is supposed, were the patriarchs. David was the agent of Mason and Gorges, and subsequently lived on an island, which still bears his name, in the Boston Harbor. Robert ultimately settled in or near Durham, N. H., and his descendants are still found in that town and elsewhere, in large numbers." In the genealogy that I have there is no Robert, son of Richard & Florence (Cromlan), the parents of David (wife Amyes Colle) Thompson/Thomson. Can anyone explain. Quint Thompson -----Original Message----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 9:44 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where o ur ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip Wa r. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was=2 0a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Th ompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May=2 01669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 =0 AWoodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our=2 0David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon 20 Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th 20 century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson T o: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson 0A of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, 20 MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. =2 0 I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson =2 0 Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ===========3D================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = =0 A _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _________________________________________ ___________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies_______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090205/834c2a60/attachment-0001.html From morrisb at libcoop.net Thu Feb 12 15:58:47 2009 From: morrisb at libcoop.net (morrisb) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:58:47 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c98d57$a9c1eea0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne?s connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John?s stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [ mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com ]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org ; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090212/c43fdede/attachment-0001.html From quintinth at aol.com Thu Feb 12 17:12:21 2009 From: quintinth at aol.com (Quintin Thompson) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:12:21 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: <000101c98d57$a9c1eea0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> References: <000101c98d57$a9c1eea0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <29627677-5DAC-44DE-A33D-AD21968EBC00@aol.com> Seekers, If you go on line with Genevieve, > > Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to > find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of > David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and > Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and > would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that > would place them there. What was William Crowne?s connection with > David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John?s > stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try > to check them out. Thanks! > > Betty Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > > > Betty, > > Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. > Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is > important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I > suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a > Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where > our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on > Mendon during the King Philip War. > > > > Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in > Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. > Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel > as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the > Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was > where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and > Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. > > > > Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor > under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David > Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is > redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David > Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's > Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship > Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter > - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. > > > > John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's > master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means > landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. > Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is > referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as > Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! > > > > Best Wishes, > > Genevieve > > PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available > from Mormon Research Centers. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: morrisb > > To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers.' > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > > > Genevieve, > > Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last > month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered > my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections > about early Mendon. She wrote: > > "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. > There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're > looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans > Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of > handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name > of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of > Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript > records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" > > I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. > Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of > identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of > David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: > > "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not > allowed to make copies from either: > > 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated > May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a > printed transcript produced by members of committees from six > Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add > anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. > > 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) > unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 > TH-Z. > Contained the following: > > David and Amyes (sic) > son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah > son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland > dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 > dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and > Catherine > > A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. > John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham > Sarah 12 May 1669 > Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 > Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 > Woodland 27 Jan 1681 > Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 > David 24 May 1687 > Hannah 3 Aug 1689 > > There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." > > > > Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that > suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as > John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born > in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, > either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is > nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas > Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to > continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists > seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! > > Betty Lou. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > Betty, > > Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which > mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? > > Genevieve > > > > > > > > > > From: morrisb > > To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers.' > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM > > Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > > > To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John > Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are > one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand- > written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with > this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and > was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned > Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at > these two items. > > One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, > and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John > Thompson question." > > The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about > 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the > Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but > includes no sources. > > I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John > Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John > Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and > tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to > convince other genealogists. > > Betty Lou > > -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM > To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers.' > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of > David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I > wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations > for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of > David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for > the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at > the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father > of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it > there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? > > Betty Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > Betty Lou, > > I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the > same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too > including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book > in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the > father of John. > > Genevieve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Quintin Thompson > > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants > andresearchers. > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > > > Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I > have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to > Betty Lou. Quint > > > > > > > > On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: > > > > > Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies > are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David > Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of > proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, > is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any > information to help with this, please let us know. > > Betty Lou Morris > > Mount Clemens, MI > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM > To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias > COLE descendants andresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle > Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. > You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an > ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh > generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: > http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm > > Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? > Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further > posts from you. > > Alyce Thompson Elliott > > > > > At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: > > > Tommies, > > On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from > Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this > message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had > visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other > descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her > a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies > website. She has joined our email list. > > Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. > > --Dick > ============================ > Dick Hodgman > dick at hodgman.org > http://hodgman.org/ > > p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. > Content-Type: application/pdf; > name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" > X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 > Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. > > _______________________________________________ > > Tommies mailing list > > Tommies at wellswooster.com > > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > = > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090212/6ddafdb7/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Thu Feb 12 22:40:37 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:40:37 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000101c98d57$a9c1eea0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090212/a01a6b8c/attachment-0001.html From quintinth at aol.com Fri Feb 13 10:14:32 2009 From: quintinth at aol.com (Quintin Thompson) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:14:32 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: References: <000101c98d57$a9c1eea0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <5F33AB05-85BD-4C58-B88F-6C1CEEB4D555@aol.com> Seekers, Another direction was the Hudson Valley of New York. After two David's 'lingered' in Mendon, Daniel (1742-1807) who was born in Mendon later died in Saratoga, NY. Quint On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:40 PM, wrote: > Betty Lou, > John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David > Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of > Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the > contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. > Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was > making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the > Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. > Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra- > conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and > disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in > Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI > before heading out to NH/VT. > Genevieve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: morrisb > To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers.' > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > Genevieve, > > Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to > find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of > David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and > Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and > would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that > would place them there. What was William Crowne?s connection with > David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John?s > stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try > to check them out. Thanks! > > Betty Lou > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > > > Betty, > > Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. > Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is > important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I > suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a > Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where > our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on > Mendon during the King Philip War. > > > > Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in > Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. > Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel > as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the > Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was > where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and > Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. > > > > Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor > under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David > Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is > redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David > Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's > Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship > Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter > - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. > > > > John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's > master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means > landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. > Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is > referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as > Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! > > > > Best Wishes, > > Genevieve > > PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available > from Mormon Research Centers. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: morrisb > > > To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers.' > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > > > Genevieve, > > Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last > month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered > my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections > about early Mendon. She wrote: > > "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. > There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're > looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans > Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of > handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name > of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of > Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript > records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" > > I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. > Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of > identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of > David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: > > "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not > allowed to make copies from either: > > 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated > May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a > printed transcript produced by members of committees from six > Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add > anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. > > 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) > unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 > TH-Z. > Contained the following: > > David and Amyes (sic) > son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah > son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland > dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 > dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and > Catherine > > A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. > John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham > Sarah 12 May 1669 > Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 > Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 > Woodland 27 Jan 1681 > Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 > David 24 May 1687 > Hannah 3 Aug 1689 > > There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." > > > > Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that > suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as > John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born > in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, > either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is > nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas > Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to > continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists > seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! > > Betty Lou. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > Betty, > > Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which > mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? > > Genevieve > > > > > > > > > > From: morrisb > > To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers.' > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM > > Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David > > > > To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John > Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are > one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand- > written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with > this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and > was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned > Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at > these two items. > > One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, > and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John > Thompson question." > > The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about > 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the > Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but > includes no sources. > > I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John > Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John > Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and > tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to > convince other genealogists. > > Betty Lou > > -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM > To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers.' > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of > David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I > wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations > for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of > David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for > the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at > the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father > of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it > there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? > > Betty Lou > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE > descendantsandresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > Betty Lou, > > I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the > same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too > including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book > in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the > father of John. > > Genevieve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Quintin Thompson > > > To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants > andresearchers. > > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > > > Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I > have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to > Betty Lou. Quint > > > > > > > > On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: > > > > > Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies > are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David > Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of > proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, > is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any > information to help with this, please let us know. > > Betty Lou Morris > > Mount Clemens, MI > > -----Original Message----- > From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies- > bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM > To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias > COLE descendants andresearchers. > Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta > > Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle > Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. > You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an > ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh > generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: > http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm > > Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? > Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further > posts from you. > > Alyce Thompson Elliott > > > > > At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: > > > Tommies, > > On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from > Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this > message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had > visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other > descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her > a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies > website. She has joined our email list. > > Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. > > --Dick > ============================ > Dick Hodgman > dick at hodgman.org > http://hodgman.org/ > > p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. > Content-Type: application/pdf; > name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" > X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 > Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. > > _______________________________________________ > > Tommies mailing list > > Tommies at wellswooster.com > > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > = > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090213/4439d99d/attachment-0001.html From Dredge2 at comcast.net Fri Feb 13 16:14:23 2009 From: Dredge2 at comcast.net (Dredge2 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:14:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: <000101c98d57$a9c1eea0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <1173372576.1170271234559663005.JavaMail.root@sz0088a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Have you tried "The Descendants of David and Amyes Thompson" by Col. (Retired) Henry Joseph Amy (1962)..? As I recall, that source lists David's children, and John's wife, Sarah Trevore as well as their descendants. Dexter Edge , ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers.' Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:58:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David 0 DocumentEmail Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne?s connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John?s stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090213/95b500e3/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Fri Feb 13 17:40:11 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:40:11 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <1173372576.1170271234559663005.JavaMail.root@sz0088a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <73CB8ECFDC294A8199495FBE21F58290@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Yes. The Amy book is great, but the person who assisted him at the Antiquarian Society presumed David as an Englishman and found the name to match. But David signed his letter the Scottish way. And people who met him described him as a Scotsman. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: Dredge2 at comcast.net To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Have you tried "The Descendants of David and Amyes Thompson" by Col. (Retired) Henry Joseph Amy (1962)..? As I recall, that source lists David's children, and John's wife, Sarah Trevore as well as their descendants. Dexter Edge , ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers.' Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:58:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne?s connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John?s stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090213/e1c16650/attachment-0001.html From morrisb at libcoop.net Mon Feb 16 16:59:42 2009 From: morrisb at libcoop.net (morrisb) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:59:42 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c99088$17387de0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn?t give any sources ? at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [ mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com ]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org ; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090216/8802f38f/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Mon Feb 16 18:16:53 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:16:53 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000001c99088$17387de0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <08CA6270ECD6409F8B9ED30B414AF076@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn't give any sources - at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090216/9a24e366/attachment-0001.html From morrisb at libcoop.net Tue Feb 17 14:56:11 2009 From: morrisb at libcoop.net (morrisb) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:56:11 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: <08CA6270ECD6409F8B9ED30B414AF076@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Message-ID: <000101c9913b$0e287440$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Genevieve, Thanks for sending more clues that may help to prove that our John Thompson was the son of David. I will keep digging on this. Your research interests are certainly long-ranging and varied. Best of luck with all of your projects! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:17 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn't give any sources - at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [ mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com ]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org ; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090217/e8c1d2b0/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Tue Feb 17 20:24:06 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:24:06 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000101c9913b$0e287440$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: Thanks, Betty Lou. I know you too search tirelessly. It's time consuming but worth it. I do believe that our John is the son of David. Too many things point to it - including his age. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Thanks for sending more clues that may help to prove that our John Thompson was the son of David. I will keep digging on this. Your research interests are certainly long-ranging and varied. Best of luck with all of your projects! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:17 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn't give any sources - at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090217/5c124bd4/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Wed Feb 18 20:42:58 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:42:58 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000001c99088$17387de0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> <08CA6270ECD6409F8B9ED30B414AF076@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Message-ID: <4AB4E188CCC04E49B8B7E63D00FF5E21@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Betty Lou, Another clue I uncovered is a document where a John Thompson was fined for being drunk after returning from Maverick's house. I have often wondered if he had a drinking problem which caused him to loose everything until his darling Sarah helped save him. If you recall, John opened the first tavern (ordinary house I think they were called) in Mendon. If he was a strict Puritan I doubt that would have been an option. Genevieve PS Also I saw a match between the John Thompson flowing signature in relation to Noodles Island with the flowing handwriting of the partial signature we have from John of Mendon. As for spelling - it changed from day to day for some. But if a Scottish Thomson was born in England, chances are he would use the Thompson spelling. David Thomson's signature is clearly the Scottish spelling, yet the grant for Massachusetts lists him as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. - as do the Minutes of the Council for New England meetings. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn't give any sources - at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090218/d1304c78/attachment-0001.html From maaisha at aol.com Thu Feb 19 08:11:20 2009 From: maaisha at aol.com (maaisha at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:11:20 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: <4AB4E188CCC04E49B8B7E63D00FF5E21@YOUR8E5CB830F1> References: <000001c99088$17387de0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris><08CA6270ECD6409F8B9ED30B414AF076@YOUR8E5CB830F1> <4AB4E188CCC04E49B8B7E63D00FF5E21@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Message-ID: <8CB60AAB0A90B27-5B8-2092@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> I think standardized spelling is quite new.? I once read that John Adams (or maybe John Q.) said he couldn't respect a man who could only spell a word one way!? Even my grandfather, when told he had misspelled his son's name, said it didn't matter how he spelled it - Fredrick was Frederick any way you looked at it.? My daughter's Middle Eastern in-laws are quite fluid today about the spelling of their names.? I know some of my Irish and English ancestors added or dropped a final e depending upon whether they were in England or Ireland at the time, to conform with the custom of the country.? (This is painful for someone who taught spelling for many years.)? I don't think one can read very much into spelling variations, although they are certainly worth noticing. Lois -----Original Message----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 8:42 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, Another clue I uncovered is a document where a John Thompson was fined for being drunk after returning from Maverick's house.? I have often wondered if he had a drinking problem which caused him to loose everything until his darling Sarah helped save him.? If you recall, John opened the first tavern (ordinary house I think they were called) in Mendon.? If he was a strict Puritan I doubt that would have been an option. Genevieve PS? Also I saw a match betw een the John Thompson flowing signature in relation to Noodles Island with the flowing handwriting of the partial signature we have from John of Mendon.? As for spelling - it changed from day to day for some.? But if a Scottish Thomson was born in England, chances are he would use the Thompson spelling.? David Thomson's signature is clearly the Scottish spelling, yet the grant for Massachusetts lists him as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. - as do the Minutes of the Council for New England meetings. ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago.? They had rare documents and info on Arundel.? I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago.? Details will be in my book.? It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials.? (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) ? The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago.? Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile.? I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books.? I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer.? I haven't a clue where it is hidden.? I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside.? I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story.? There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve ? ? ? ? Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, ? I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David.? Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne?? How do we know th at Samuel Maverick was in? Weymouth/Mendon?? ? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn?t give any sources ? at least not that I know of. ? Betty Lou ? -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David ? Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne.? David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel.? Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate.? Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man.? The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another.? Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick.? The others were ultra-conservative.? Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and=2 0Jews at one point.? Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ? ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David ? Genevieve, ? Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David.? I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there.? What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson?? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather.? If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out.? Thanks! ? Betty Lou ? -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounc es at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David ? Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records.? Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History.? Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings.? Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. ? Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues.? Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel?as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.)? Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth.? It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. ? Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New 20 England.? He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent.?? To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant.? It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master.? I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619.? Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in?the South - not flattering. ? John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything.? Goodman means landowner.? A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime.? Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic.? Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! ? Best Wishes, Genevieve PS? The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers.?? ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb ? To: 'Discuss ion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David ? Genevieve, ? Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe.? Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS,? answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon.? She wrote:? ?? "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" ? I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind.? She reported as follows: 20 "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." ? ? Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon.? Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's.? There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either.? I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it.? Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! ? Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: 20 tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve ? ? ? ? From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David ? To Gen Fraser and all Tommies:? Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information.? I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon.? I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two =2 0items.? ? ?One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." ? The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. ? I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David.? The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. ? Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris]?,? From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta ? Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John20Thompson of Mendon.? I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and? (2) John of Mendon?? Does anyone have a citation for the? late 18th/early 19th century?hand-written book from?Mendon?at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John?? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there.? Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? ? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son.? There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- 0A From: Quintin Thompson ? To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta ? Hi, Gen? sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim.? I have a print out of it.? Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou.? ?Quint ? ? ? On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: ? Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon.? We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson? as an ancestor.? My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David.? If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. ? Betty Lou Morris ? Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:t ommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us.? I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list.? You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather.? I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common?? At least up to Charles?? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound.? On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson.? I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website.? She has joined our emai l list.? Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group.? --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. 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URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090219/dd4a7462/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Thu Feb 19 11:13:16 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:13:16 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000001c99088$17387de0$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris><08CA6270ECD6409F8B9ED30B414AF076@YOUR8E5CB830F1><4AB4E188CCC04E49B8B7E63D00FF5E21@YOUR8E5CB830F1> <8CB60AAB0A90B27-5B8-2092@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Lois. My point exactly. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: maaisha at aol.com To: tommies at wellswooster.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David I think standardized spelling is quite new. I once read that John Adams (or maybe John Q.) said he couldn't respect a man who could only spell a word one way! Even my grandfather, when told he had misspelled his son's name, said it didn't matter how he spelled it - Fredrick was Frederick any way you looked at it. My daughter's Middle Eastern in-laws are quite fluid today about the spelling of their names. I know some of my Irish and English ancestors added or dropped a final e depending upon whether they were in England or Ireland at the time, to conform with the custom of the country. (This is painful for someone who taught spelling for many years.) I don't think one can read very much into spelling variations, although they are certainly worth noticing. Lois -----Original Message----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 8:42 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, Another clue I uncovered is a document where a John Thompson was fined for being drunk after returning from Maverick's house. I have often wondered if he had a drinking problem which caused him to loose everything until his darling Sarah helped save him. If you recall, John opened the first tavern (ordinary house I think they were called) in Mendon. If he was a strict Puritan I doubt that would have been an option. Genevieve PS Also I saw a match between the John Thompson flowing signature in relation to Noodles Island with the flowing handwriting of the partial signature we have from John of Mendon. As for spelling - it changed from day to day for some. But if a Scottish Thomson was born in England, chances are he would use the Thompson spelling. David Thomson's signature is clearly the Scottish spelling, yet the grant for Massachusetts lists him as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. - as do the Minutes of the Council for New England meetings. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:16 PM < b>Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve < /div> Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'D iscussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn?t give any sources ? at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, < div class="MsoNormal" style="border: medium none ; padding: 0in; margin-left: 74.5pt;">Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whi tes in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mend on he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb < /font> To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday , February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for20your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 .M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes =2 0 (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Su bject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concern ed Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS=2 0online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message-----< /font> From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please j oin me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. 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Get the Radio Toolbar! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090219/96f0cd8f/attachment-0001.html From morrisb at libcoop.net Fri Feb 20 11:26:39 2009 From: morrisb at libcoop.net (morrisb) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:26:39 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David In-Reply-To: <4AB4E188CCC04E49B8B7E63D00FF5E21@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Message-ID: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Genevieve, Thanks for sending more clues. I did not know about John Thompson?s coming home drunk from Maverick?s house (where?), or his being the first tavern owner in Mendon. Where can I find these events recorded? How did his ?darling Sarah? help save John and where is this written? You have read and absorbed so much more of the story of David and John Thompson than any of the rest of us. I hope you will be sharing it (with sources) with us before too very long. I want to still be living when this happens! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:43 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, Another clue I uncovered is a document where a John Thompson was fined for being drunk after returning from Maverick's house. I have often wondered if he had a drinking problem which caused him to loose everything until his darling Sarah helped save him. If you recall, John opened the first tavern (ordinary house I think they were called) in Mendon. If he was a strict Puritan I doubt that would have been an option. Genevieve PS Also I saw a match between the John Thompson flowing signature in relation to Noodles Island with the flowing handwriting of the partial signature we have from John of Mendon. As for spelling - it changed from day to day for some. But if a Scottish Thomson was born in England, chances are he would use the Thompson spelling. David Thomson's signature is clearly the Scottish spelling, yet the grant for Massachusetts lists him as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. - as do the Minutes of the Council for New England meetings. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn't give any sources - at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [ mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com ]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org ; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _____ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090220/de046c04/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Fri Feb 20 12:51:55 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:51:55 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: Betty Lou, I am basing my Sarah comment on his will which speaks of her. I found the "drunk" document at the Massachusetts archives. The Inn in Mendon is part of Mendon history. Everything I am writing you is based on memory. When I write for the public I have documents in front of me. My research on David and his family is taking me down some interesting rabbit holes. That is what I am most focusing on now - and doing massive amounts of research. Check out David's seal posted on the Tommy site. It is dominated by a Templar cross above the stag's head. Corstorphine was a major Templar holding and the first instance of Arabic numerals in Scotland is etched into the church which was built by the Forrester family in the 1400s. The Templars were tied in with Islamic as well as Christian leaders. There is also a Templar headstone at the church and Freemasonic symbols. The Forrester/Thomsons had Sinclair bloodlines tied in with Rosslyn (ala the DaVinci Code). David's father, Rev. Magister Richard Thomson's parish was at Ratho - loaded with Templar and Masonic symbols, graves etc. The Corstophine Kirk is dedicated to St. John the Baptist, the early Masonic patron saint. There's lot's more too... I have visited the Ratho as well as the Corstorphine Kirks but have yet to visit Rosslyn. Rev. Thomson's monies (tiends) and appointments were all directly from King James and his annual salary was about 500 lbs per year - in the late 1500s - a lot of money at that time!! Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Thanks for sending more clues. I did not know about John Thompson's coming home drunk from Maverick's house (where?), or his being the first tavern owner in Mendon. Where can I find these events recorded? How did his "darling Sarah" help save John and where is this written? You have read and absorbed so much more of the story of David and John Thompson than any of the rest of us. I hope you will be sharing it (with sources) with us before too very long. I want to still be living when this happens! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:43 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, Another clue I uncovered is a document where a John Thompson was fined for being drunk after returning from Maverick's house. I have often wondered if he had a drinking problem which caused him to loose everything until his darling Sarah helped save him. If you recall, John opened the first tavern (ordinary house I think they were called) in Mendon. If he was a strict Puritan I doubt that would have been an option. Genevieve PS Also I saw a match between the John Thompson flowing signature in relation to Noodles Island with the flowing handwriting of the partial signature we have from John of Mendon. As for spelling - it changed from day to day for some. But if a Scottish Thomson was born in England, chances are he would use the Thompson spelling. David Thomson's signature is clearly the Scottish spelling, yet the grant for Massachusetts lists him as Mr. David Thompson, Gent. - as do the Minutes of the Council for New England meetings. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, I learned about William Crowne when I visited the Getty Museum several years ago. They had rare documents and info on Arundel. I also learned a bit when I visited London several years ago. Details will be in my book. It is currently packed away in one of my many truck loads of materials. (Check out William Crowne on Wiki - though I usually don't consider the site reliable, I believe it does mention the relationship.) The Maverick info regarding owning land in Weymouth I uncovered many years ago. Currently, I am researching other areas and won't be digging back into other documents for awhile. I literally have every room in my house loaded with documents and books. I hope to start unpacking some of these documents over the summer. I haven't a clue where it is hidden. I spent years on my WW II project and put everything else aside. I am also working on a book about the Middle East as I work on the Thomson story. There is some overlap in terms of the Thomson/Forrester/Corstorphine Templar background. Genevieve Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, I really appreciate your comments and suggestions of persons connected with our John Thompson who also had a relationship with David. Can you suggest any sources for information about Thomas and William Crowne? How do we know that Samuel Maverick was in Weymouth/Mendon? Col. Amy was great about putting the Thompson family genealogy together, but he didn't give any sources - at least not that I know of. Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:41 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty Lou, John Thomson settled in Mendon as did William Crowne. David Thomson wrote a three page letter to Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. Clearly, they knew one another quite well based on the contents of the letter - both deferential-formal yet intimate. Thomas Crowne worked for Arundel as a young man. The point I was making is that Puritans-Pilgrims settled in certain areas and the Council for New England agents such as Thomson settled in another. Thomson was a tolerant man as was Maverick. The others were ultra-conservative. Puritan leaders were tar and feathering, hanging and disemboweling Catholics, Quakers and Jews at one point. Many in Mendon became Quakers. I suspect our ancestors did and moved to RI before heading out to NH/VT. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Your comments of February 3rd are very helpful in my quest to find sources that show that our John Thompson was the son of David. I would like to pursue the connection of William Crowne and Samuel Maverick to Weymouth where our John Thompson settled and would appreciate any suggestions you might have for sources that would place them there. What was William Crowne's connection with David (or John) Thompson? I know Samuel Maverick was John's stepfather. If you think of any sources that would help I will try to check them out. Thanks! Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Thanks for taking the time to research the RIHS records. Mrs. Haviland also wrote on Medfield and Uxbridge History. Uxbridge is important if you are looking for a Quaker connection - which I suspect from one of my ancestors who moved to Smithfield, RI - a Quaker hotbed that met in Uxbridge for meetings. Medfield is where our ancestors escaped to when the Indians turned their anger on Mendon during the King Philip War. Along with the date of birth, the association with the Whites in Weymouth and Mendon, and William Crowne offer additional clues. Crowne was also associated with Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel as was David Thomson (remember his 3-page letter in 1625 to the Earl.) Also, Samuel Maverick also held land in Weymouth. It was where the Gorges associated folks lived while the Pilgrims and Puritans spread their wings throughout the Commonwealth. Refer back to the Massachusetts grant naming David as the governor under the Council for New England. He is referred to Mr. David Thompson, Gent. To use Mr. and Gent. in the same title is redundant. It is believed by at least one major historian, David Howarth, author of Arundel and His Circle, that David was a ship's Master. I have also found a Mr. Thompson, Master of the ship Jonathan in early Virginia Records - about 1619. Recall the letter - he mentions his impression of folks in the South - not flattering. John was referred to as Mr. John Thompson when he was a ship's master, but we all know he lost everything. Goodman means landowner. A person can be more than one thing in one's lifetime. Frankly, I find Richardson's analysis to be idiotic. Because he is referred to as Goodman in Mendon he cannot be the same person as Mr. John Thomson - a title he held when he was a ship's master!! Best Wishes, Genevieve PS The Mendon Families by Havilard is also on microfilm available from Mormon Research Centers. ----- Original Message ----- From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Genevieve, Yes, I believe it is probably the book you describe. Early last month Ms. Lee Teverow, Reference Librarian at the RIHS, answered my inquiry about a hand-written book of records or recollections about early Mendon. She wrote: "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the book about Mendon, MA. There are two items listed in our catalog that might be what you're looking for. The first is "Mendon families," by Elizabeth Seamans Haviland (RR F 74 M59 H28) and it comprises 5 volumes of handwritten genealogical materials arranged alphabetically by name of family. The second is "The proprietors records of the town of Mendon, MA, incorporated May 15, 1667," transcribed from manuscript records (RR F 74 M59 M54.)" I asked Christine Lamar, a researcher on the list that Ms. Teverow sent to me, to look at these two books with our problem of identifying John Thompson of Mendon with John Thompson, son of David and heir to Thompson's Island in mind. She reported as follows: "The two books you suggested I evaluate are as described. I was not allowed to make copies from either: 1. The Proprietors Records of Mendon, Massachusetts, incorporated May 15, 1667. Boston, Rockwell & Churchill Press, 1899. It is a printed transcript produced by members of committees from six Massachusetts towns. It is land records which do not appear to add anything definitive to your David/John Thompson question. 2. Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland. n.d. (ca. 1901-1929) unpub., unpaged, bound mss in 5 v. The volume I looked at was V. 5 TH-Z. Contained the following: David and Amyes (sic) son John Thomson 1619- 9 Nov 1685, m. Sarah son John b. 1642- 1715 m. Thankful Woodland dau Mehitable (no birth date given) m. Samuel Hayward 9 June 1670 dau Sarah b. 2 July 1644 m. John Aldrich 1678 son of George and Catherine A list of John's- b. 1642- children was also given as follows. John 1667-1749 one of the early settlers of Bellingham Sarah 12 May 1669 Ebenezer 1 Oct 1677 Samuel 4 Feb 1679-1704 Woodland 27 Jan 1681 Benjamin 17 Sept 1681 David 24 May 1687 Hannah 3 Aug 1689 There was no indication of sources or mention of Thompson's Island." Ms. Lamar looked at other sources at RIHS but found nothing that suggested that John Thompson of Thompson's Island was the same as John Thompson of Mendon. Except for the fact that they were born in the same year and that John Jr. of Mendon named a son David, either man's timeline stands independent of the other's. There is nothing that contradicts their being the same man (except Douglas Richardson's article) but nothing connects them, either. I hate to continue claiming David as an ancestor when respected genealogists seem to doubt it. Let's hope we can find the "smoking gun"! Betty Lou. -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:16 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David Betty, Is the Mendon Families a cloth bound, hand-sewn document which mentions Amias and David at the top of the Thompson section? Genevieve From: morrisb To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson, son of David To Gen Fraser and all Tommies: Trying to find evidence that John Thompson son of David and John Thompson of Weymouth and Mendon are one and the same person, I followed your clue that there was a hand-written item at the Rhode Island Historical Society library with this information. I contacted the reference librarian there and was told they had two items that were hand-written and concerned Mendon. I hired a researcher from the library's list to look at these two items. One was The Proprietors' Records of Mendon, mostly land records, and does not "appear to add anything definitive to our David/John Thompson question." The second is Mendon Families by Mrs. Frank Haviland, n.d..(about 1901-1929) and repeats the lineage of David to John and through the Mendon Thompsons -- as we have long accepted it to be --but includes no sources. I continue to hope we will find proof someday that our John Thompson, of Weymouth and Mendon was the same person as John Thompson, son of David. The two men were born in the same year and tradition says they were the same man but we need more than this to convince other genealogists. Betty Lou -----Original Message-----[Betty Lou Morris] , From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of morrisb Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:41 PM To: 'Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers.' Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Thanks, Gen, for your response about the proof that John, son of David Thompson, was the same person as John Thompson of Mendon. I wonder if any of the Tommies has in his/her records the citations for the date, place and source for (1) the birth of John, son of David and (2) John of Mendon? Does anyone have a citation for the late 18th/early 19th century hand-written book from Mendon at the Rhode Island Historical Society that lists David as the father of John? I looked at the RIHS online catalogue and did not find it there. Does anyone on the Tommies list have access to that library? Betty Lou -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:24 PM To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendantsandresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Betty Lou, I don't have the facts at my fingertips, but John of Mendon was the same age as John, David's son. There are other reasons too including a late 18th century/early 19th century handwritten book in the RI historical society from Mendon that lists David as the father of John. Genevieve ----- Original Message ----- From: Quintin Thompson To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi, Gen sometime ago you gave remarks supporting this claim. I have a print out of it. Maybe you can up date it and pass it on to Betty Lou. Quint On Dec 16, 2008, at 4:41 PM, morrisb wrote: Let me add my greetings of welcome to you, Sharon. We Tommies are a pretty scattered and diverse group, but we all claim David Thompson as an ancestor. My particular hang up is the question of proof that John Thompson of Mendon, MA, from whom we all descend, is the same man as John Thompson, son of David. If you have any information to help with this, please let us know. Betty Lou Morris Mount Clemens, MI -----Original Message----- From: tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com [mailto:tommies-bounces at wellswooster.com]On Behalf Of Alyce Elliott Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:36 PM To: dick at hodgman.org; Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Subject: Re: [Tommies] Welcome Sharon Thompson from Alberta Hi Sharon, thanks for joining us. I believe I know your Uncle Frank, if it's the same Frank Thompson -- met him on this list. You and I (and others on the list including Frank) share an ancestor: C. B. Thompson, my great grandfather. I'm eleventh generation wrt David Thomson, see my line here: http://www.wellswooster.com/tommies/alyce.htm Do we have the same line in common? At least up to Charles? Welcome to the Tommies list and I look forward to seeing further posts from you. Alyce Thompson Elliott At 10:11 AM 12/14/2008, you wrote: Tommies, On Monday, 11/17/08,I received the Fall 2008 newsletter from Thompson Island Outward Bound. On the back page (attached to this message), I found that Sharon Thompson of Alberta, Canada had visited Thompson Island and wanted to reach out to other descendants of David Thompson. I contacted her by email, gave her a synopsis of our 2001 (Re)union, and pointed her to the Tommies website. She has joined our email list. Please join me in welcoming Sharon to our group. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ p.s. This message was delayed due to problems with the email list. Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" X-Attachment-Id: f_fopu24oq1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Thompson Island Fall 2008 Back Page Compacted.pdf" _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to find information on your credit score and your credit report. _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090220/50ff7a72/attachment-0001.html From maaisha at aol.com Sun Feb 22 13:42:45 2009 From: maaisha at aol.com (maaisha at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:42:45 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> Message-ID: <8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> Hi All, ? I have two questions.? ? I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John Aldrich.? I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John.? Where does John Aldrich fit in?? I must be missing a daughter.? I am descended from both the son, John, and the daughter, Mehitable.? Who was their sibling? ? This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to see.? Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and sending them back to England?? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle?? What am I missing here? ?? Thanks for any help. Sincerely,? Lois ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/f096bcb3/attachment.html From janetgranzin at hotmail.com Sun Feb 22 14:18:04 2009 From: janetgranzin at hotmail.com (Janet Granzin) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:18:04 -0600 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: <8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> <8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Lois, My record of John's children are: John, Mehitable, and Sarah, who married John Aldridge on June 09, 1670, in Mendon, Mass. She died February 25, 1678, in Bridgewater, Mass. I descended from John. Sincerely, Janet To: tommies at wellswooster.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:42:45 -0500 From: maaisha at aol.com Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post Hi All, I have two questions. I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John Aldrich. I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John. Where does John Aldrich fit in? I must be missing a daughter. I am descended from both the son, John, and the daughter, Mehitable. Who was their sibling? This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to see. Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and sending them back to England? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle? What am I missing here? Thanks for any help. Sincerely, Lois Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/0bcf014d/attachment.html From quintinth at aol.com Sun Feb 22 14:21:03 2009 From: quintinth at aol.com (Quintin Thompson) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:21:03 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: <8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> <8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <388D0672-45CE-42F9-B26D-7594AD8CCE9C@aol.com> Seeker, I have Sarah who died Feb. 25, 1677/1678 but no birth date. To whom did Mehitable marry? Quizzical Quint On Feb 22, 2009, at 1:42 PM, maaisha at aol.com wrote: > Hi All, > I have two questions. > I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in- > law, John Aldrich. I have only two children for John Thompson and > Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, > John. Where does John Aldrich fit in? I must be missing a > daughter. I am descended from both the son, John, and the > daughter, Mehitable. Who was their sibling? > This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too > dense to see. Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, > drying cod and sending them back to England? Isn't that like > sending coal to Newcastle? What am I missing here? > Thanks for any help. > Sincerely, Lois > > > > > > Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. > Get the Radio Toolbar! > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/96d91397/attachment.html From dick.hodgman at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 15:29:32 2009 From: dick.hodgman at gmail.com (Dick Hodgman) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:29:32 -0600 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: <8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris> <8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4bc4eb400902221229n6cad6f8s52af7a0765d04e4b@mail.gmail.com> Lois, David and Amyes were in the New World to support the British fishing fleet. Their providing provisions and services allowed the fleet to stay off North America for the entire season. The British came to the New World for the fish before they came for religious freedom. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote: > Hi All, > I have two questions. > I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John > Aldrich. I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - > Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John. Where does John Aldrich > fit in? I must be missing a daughter. I am descended from both the son, > John, and the daughter, Mehitable. Who was their sibling? > This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to > see. Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and > sending them back to England? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle? > What am I missing here? > Thanks for any help. > Sincerely, Lois > > > > > * * > ------------------------------ > Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the > Radio Toolbar > ! > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/f9328dc6/attachment.html From maaisha at aol.com Sun Feb 22 17:54:34 2009 From: maaisha at aol.com (maaisha at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:54:34 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: <388D0672-45CE-42F9-B26D-7594AD8CCE9C@aol.com> References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris><8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> <388D0672-45CE-42F9-B26D-7594AD8CCE9C@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB6357A9CEE3DE-958-5B4@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com> Hi Quizzical Quint, ?? Mehitable married Samuel Hayward (or Haywood in her father's will) at Medfield on 28 Nov 1666.? I have a record of one daughter (my line), Mary Hayward, b? abt.1671 who married Joseph Rockwood and had a daughter, Johanna Rockwood, 1692 - 1777.? Johanna married Eliphalet Holbrook, 1691-1775.? Their son, another Eliphalet, 1725-1776, married Abigail Wight.?? Abigail Wight, 1734-1808, was the daughter of Joseph Wight, Jr. and Martha Thompson, 1705-1781.? Martha was the daughter of John Thompson, 1667-1748, and Hannah Wight. (Hannah Wight and Joseph Wight, Sr. were sister and brother, so Martha Thompson was marrying her cousin, Joseph Wight, Jr - my addition of Jr. and Sr. for clarification.)? Martha Thompson Wight's father, John Thompson, was the son of John Thompson 1642-1704, and Thankful Woodland.? This last mentioned John Thompson was the son of John Thompson, 1618-1685, and he was, of course, the son of David Thomson.? So that's how I'm descended from both Mehitable and John Thompson. ? My grandmother gave me a pewter plate with the initials M T stamped on it.? On the back was written, "To D.F. Hunter from his great grandmother, Martha Thompson Wight".? His grandmother must have written that because he was born after Martha died, and his mother couldn't have written it either since she died shortly after his birth.? Since Martha was born in 1705 and married in 1729, I assume the plate was given to her in those years before her marriage.? I have another pewter plate and a pewter cereal bowl with a filigreed handle, all passed down as a group.? Holding it is like reaching back in time.? It makes that genealogical link so tangible. ? Sorry if it's too much info. Lois -----Original Message----- From: Quintin Thompson Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post Seeker, ?? ?I have Sarah who died Feb. 25, 1677/1678 but no birth date.? To whom did Mehitable marry?? Quizzical Quint On Feb 22, 2009, at 1:42 PM, maaisha at aol.com wrote: Hi All, ? I have two questions.? ? I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John Aldrich.? I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John.? Where does John Aldrich fit in?? I must be missing a daughter.? I am descended from both the son, John, and the daughter, Mehitable.? Who was their sibling? ? This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to see.? Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and sending them back to England?? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle?? What am I missing here? ?? Thanks for any help. Sincerely,? Lois ? Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies = _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/6d1e8407/attachment-0001.html From maaisha at aol.com Sun Feb 22 17:57:47 2009 From: maaisha at aol.com (maaisha at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:57:47 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: <4bc4eb400902221229n6cad6f8s52af7a0765d04e4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris><8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> <4bc4eb400902221229n6cad6f8s52af7a0765d04e4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB63581D480806-958-5DC@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com> Thank you very much, Dick.? I can see that the British would want an outpost for servicing their vessels.? That makes sense.? The fish don't.? Surely the British had plenty of fish, and still do.? Why would codfish be sent back to England - or were they not sent back?? Was it only to feed arriving sailors? Lois -----Original Message----- From: Dick Hodgman Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post Lois, David and Amyes were in the New World to support the British fishing fleet.? Their providing provisions and services allowed the fleet to stay off North America for the entire season.? The British came to the New World for the fish before they came for religious freedom.? --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote: Hi All, ? I have two questions.? ? I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John Aldrich.? I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John.? Where does John Aldrich fit in?? I must be missing a daughter.? I am descended from both the son, John, and the daughter, Mehitable.? Who was their sibling? ? This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to see.? Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and sending them back to England?? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle?? What am I missing here? ?? Thanks for any help. Sincerely,? Lois ? Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/d9f013bf/attachment.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Sun Feb 22 18:19:41 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:19:41 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post References: <000001c99378$3c2b5080$0a83fea9@BettyLouMorris><8CB63347CA6A276-7FC-1546@WEBMAIL-DF13.sysops.aol.com> <4bc4eb400902221229n6cad6f8s52af7a0765d04e4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0D021A90AFCD488D95A147783FB49A59@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Dick, David and Amias/Amyes were in New England to help regulate the fishing industry and to serve as the legal agent for the Council for New England which was headed by Ludvick Stuart (the Duke of Lennox who was King James's cousin) and Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel. These men were the most powerful men in England aside from the King himself. I have not found evidence that David served as an agent for Mason and Gorges, but rather for the Council and Arundel specifically. Along with helping to regulate the fishing industry, Thomson scouted out the coast for other resources too. You may recall that David's letter to Arundel starts by talking about samples of marble he had shipped over to Arundel. At that time Arundel was the head of the London Building Committee - appointed by the King - and he was a major patron of the arts, funding painters and sculpters. VanDyke is one of the many artists he sponsored. I've posted below a few exerpts from one of my articles on Thomson. Genevieve PS David was chosen to appear before the Privy Councel (the King's private governing council) on behalf of the Council for New England. That 's what is meant by Thomson being ordered to "attend the Lords." By the way, the original Council for New England records are located at the American Antiquarian Society in Worcester, MA. ------------- Extracts from the Council for New England records reveal that one of Thomson's roles was to inform the Lords, and thereby His Majesty, of the concerns and activities of the Council. He also acted as an agent on behalf of the Council in a variety of other matters. 5th of July 1622: "It is ordered that David Thomson do attend the Lords, with a petition to his majesty for forfeits committed by Thomas Weston, also to solicit the Lords for procuring from his Majesty a proclamation concerning the fishermen of the western parts. Likewise to procure some course for punishing their contempt of authority." (6) The petition was acknowledged by the King on the 6 November 1622 with a "Proclamation Prohibiting Interloping and Disorderly Trading to New England in America." "Whereby, having received certain information of many and intolerable abuses offered by sundry interlopers, irregular and disobedient persons....We for reformation and prevention of these or the like evils hereafter, and for the more clear declaration of our kingly resolution and just intents, both to maintain our royal grant already made, and to uphold and encourage ...the undertakers of those designs...do hereby straightly charge and command that none of our subjects whatsoever...in New England, presume from henceforth to frquent those coasts...otherwise by the license of the said counsel or according to the orders established by our privy council..." (7) July 24, 1622 was the date of the first division of the Patent for New England by the Council for New England. As the record reveals, David Thomson was to meet with the Council Lords, as agent for the Council for New England. The "bounds for the dividends" of the patents for the Lord Duke of Lennox and the Earl of Arundel were also determined at this meeting. (8) 24th of July 1622: "...Mr. Thomson is appointed to attend the Lords, for a warrant to Mr. Attorney-General for drawing the new patent, Sir Henry Spilman to attend on the same subject." (9) This was also the date that the "Tenure for Private Planters" was drawn up. The Tenure stated that "private planters shall hold of the Chamber of State to be established there, and shall have power to create their own tenures to such as shall hold under them." Through this, Thomson's Indenture may have been legally established. In addition, the following entry determined that the feudal system of Old England be continued in New England. "The country is to be called Nova Albion. That there may be power given in to grant patent to create titles of honor and precedency so as they differ in nomination from the titles used here in England." (10) Later that year, in November, Thomson appears as de-facto attorney, treasurer, and general manager for the affairs of the Council. 8th of November 1622: "Mr. Thomson is ordered to pay unto Leo. Peddock L10 (ten pounds) towards his pains for his last employments to New England." 11th of November 1622: "Mr. Thomson is appointed to attend Sir Robert Mansell," concerning Captain Squibb's commission. 15th of November 1622: "Mr. Thomson and the clerk" are directed to "see the tun of iron weighed" to be sent to Whitby. And on the same day "Mr. Thomson is appointed to solicit Capt. Love to pay in the L40 for which Sr. Saml. Argall standeth engaged," etc. On the 16th of November, Thomson received his patent, or grant, for 6,000 acres and an island in New England, but unlike the Lords, his intent was to actually embark on a colonial adventure. 16th of November 1622: "It is ordered that Mr. Thomson solicit the adventurers for payment in of their moneys" ; and under the same date, "Mr. Thomson's patent was this day signed by the above said Council." (11) Shortly afterwards, Thomson made preparations for his journey, by securing provisions and men for establishing the plantation. 3rd of December 1622: "Mr. Thomson prepoundeth to have order from the Council for transportation of ten persons with the provisions for New England. And the persons so transported to pay the Council for the usual rate for their transportation, after the expiration of two years." (12) At the time Thomson was finalizing plans to establish a colony in New England, Walter Younge, Esq. of Devon wrote in his diary, "There is a great scarcity of money within all this kingdom, so that any man cannot depend on any payment or receat any money due to him, and generally all the country is impoverished." (13) While Council Lords were busy doling out large tracts of land in the New World for themselves, three men are known to have received grants for 6,000 acres and an island in New England, to be "confirmed in his possession once he occupied the land." These men were Christopher Levett, Abraham Jennings, and David Thomson. (14) Monhegan Island in Maine, was part of the Jennings grant. In 1626, Jennings sold out his store of goods there, valued at ?800, to the Plymouth Plantation governor, William Bradford, and to David Thomson. (15) In contrast to the 6,000 acres grants, the grant to the Pilgrims at Plymouth Plantation was for 1,500 acres, with 100 extra acres for each settler. (16 ) Not surprising, one of the largest grants, the Massachusetts grant, was reserved for the son of Sir Ferdinando Gorges, who was the Governor of the fort at Plymouth, England. Gorges was known as the chief architect of the New England colonization plans which were implemented through the Council for New England. Yet, even with the grant for Massachusetts, Thomson played a key role. On December 30, 1622, Sir Ferdinando Gorges' patent for his son Robert Gorges was signed for "all that part of the main land in New-England aforesaid, commonly called or known by the name of Messachusiack, situate, lying and being upon the northeast side of the Bay called or known by the name of Messachuset... together with all the shores and coasts along the sea for ten English miles..." For this privilege, the payment of one hundred and sixty pounds of lawful English money was put into the hands of the Treasurer by Robert Gorges. (27) At the close of the Gorges patent is the following, "And lastly know ye, that we the said Council have deputized, authorized and appointed, and in our place and stead have put David Thomson, Gent., or in his absence any other person that shall be their Governor, or other officer unto the said Council, to be our true and lawful attorney and attorneys, and in our name and stead to enter the said lands...and take possession and seisen thereof...for us and in our name to deliver the same unto the said Robert Gorges or his heirs..." The document is signed by the Duke of Lenox, the Marquis of Hamilton, the Earl of Arundell and Surrey as well as by Sir Robert Mansell, Doctor Barnaby Goach, treasurer, and William Boles, clerk of the Council. (28) Thomson settled Piscataqua (NH) in the spring of 1623. In the autumn of that year, Robert Gorges arrived with a company of gentlemen and servants. Gorges returned to England early in 1624 and died soon afterwards. Several years later, Thomson died and his widow, Amias married her husband's close friend, Samuel Maverick, who had arrived in the company of gentlemen with Gorges. (29) During the Restoration, King Charles II appointed Samuel Maverick a Royal Commissioner for the New England Colonies. About 1660, Maverick wrote A Description of New England for Sir Edward Hyde (afterwards the Earl of Clarendon) who was then Lord High Chancellor. In the following entry, Maverick documents the arrival of David Thomson to New England. "Strawberry Bank. The Great House & Isle of Shooles. - Within 2 Myles of the Mouth is Strawberry Banke where are many Families, and a Minister & a Meeting House, and to the meeting Houses of Dower & Exceter, most of the people resort. This Strawberry Banke is part of 6000 acres granted by Patent about ye yeare 1620 or 1621, to Mr. David Thompson, who with the assistance of Mr. Nicholas Sherwill, Mr. Leonard Pomeroy and Mr. Abraham Colmer of Plymouth Merchants, went ower with a Considerable Company of Servants and Built a Strong and Large House, enclosed it with a large and high Palizado and mounted Gunns, and being stored extraordinarily with shot and Ammunition was a Terror to the Indians, who at that time were insulting over the poor and weake and unfurnished Planters of Plymouth. This house and ffort he built on a Point of Land at the very entrance of Pasccatoway River. And having granted by Patent all the Island bordering on this land to the Midle of the River, he tooke possession of an Island comonly called the great Island and for the bounds of this side he went up the River to a point called Bloudy Point, and by the sea side about 4 milles he had also power of Government within his owne bounds, Notwithstanding all this, all is at this day in the power and at the disposall of the Massachusitts. Two Leagues of lyes the Isle of Shooles one of the best places for ffishing in the land, they have built a Church here and maintaine a Minister." (30) Thomson's arrival is also chronicled in "The Deposition of Phinneas Pratt regarding the planting of the Plymouth (1620) and Wessagusett (1622) Colony." "...9 (?) of our men weare ded wth famine and on died in the ship before thay Came to the place whear at that Time of yeare ships Came to fish -- it being in March. At this Time ships began to fish at ye Islands of Sholes and I haveing Recovered a Little of my . . . th went to my Company near about this Time . . . the first plantation att Pascataqua the . . . thereof was Mr. Dauid Tomson at the time of my arivall (?) att Pascataqua..." "...Not long after the oferthrow of the first plantation in the bay, Capt. Louit Cam to yer Cuntry. At the Time of his being at Pascataway a Sacham or Sagamor Gaue two of his men, on to Capt. Louit & An other to Mr. Tomson, but on yt was ther said, "How can you trust these Salvagis. Cale the nam of on Watt Tylor, & ye other Jack Straw, after ye names of the two greatest Rebills yt ever weare in Eingland." Watt Tylor said "when he was a boy Capt. Dormer found him upon an Island in great distress." (31) Under the date of 1623, Governor Bradford, in speaking of the Weston Colony states, "There were also this year some scattering beginnings made in other places as at Paskataway, by Mr. David Thomson, at Monhigen, and at some other places, by sundry others." Christopher Levett, one of the three men who was granted 6,000 acres and an island, came over in 1623 and returned the following year. Levett wrote, "The next place I came unto was Pannaway, where one M. Thomson hath made a Plantation. There I stayed about one month." (32) By 1625/26 Maverick, with the assistance of David Thomson, built a fort at Noddles Island (currently Logan Airport) in Boston Harbor and possibly a house at Squantum Neck, which connects to the island at low tide via a sand bar. (The Plymouth Plantation Governor, William Bradford, in his "Letter Book" refers to a Mrs. Thomson as living at Squantum Neck in 1628, presumably after David's death.) Thomson may have chosen to move to the Massachusetts Bay location to better serve as the Acting Governor under the Robert Gorges grant, a position which had become more than a formality following the death of young Gorges. (33) What became of Thomson's interest in the Piscataqua plantation is not clear. Perhaps he continued to micro-manage it from his Boston Harbor post until his death. What is clear, from Massachusetts Bay Colony records, is that a Mr. John Thomson, Master of the ship the Elizabeth of New England, was the son born to David and Amias Thomson in 1619. In 1650, he laid claim to an island in Boston Harbor, which to this day is referred to as Thomson's Island. His claim was supported by the testimony of four individuals. Miles Standish stated that in the yeare 1620 he had come into this country "and I take it the same yeare I was in the Massachusett Bay with Willjam Trevoyre and then being on the Island lying neere Dorchester And called the sajd Island; Island Trevoyre and then no natives there Inhabiting... Further I Cann testify that David Thompson had shown me a very Ancient Pattent and that Isle Thompson was in it but the terms of it I cannot remember." The Sagamore of Agawam testified "that in the yeare 1619: or thereabouts as I Remember I went in my own person with Mr. David Thompson and then he tooke possession of the Island before Dorcester he liking no other but that because of the Smale Riuer and then no Indeans upon it or any wigwam or planting..." William Blaxton (Blackstone), one of the first residents of what was to become Boston, Massachusetts, testified that the Island called Tomson's I. is by Dorcester neck, and that I heard ould Mr. Thompson affirm that he had a patten for it and there is a harbor in that island for a boat which none of the rest of the islands had and these that put hoggs there doe it to his consent to my knowledge," (34) William Trevour (Trevor), a sailor on the Mayflower and later Captain of his own ship, the William claimed that 'Thompsons Island' is the formerly called 'Island of Trevour' which I took possession of in 1619 and declared the same (as the effect of my proceedings) to Mr David Thomson in London; on which information the said T. obtained a grant and patten for peaceable and quiet possession of said island to him and heirs forever: - I being in the Company's service at the said time..." (35) If the 1619 date is correct, then David Thomson may have been in London about the time the "Petition for a Charter of New England by the Northern Company of Adventurers" was presented to the King. In 1619, Thomson may also have set sail with Captain Dermer or have traveled on one of the many other vessels the merchants of London and Plymouth had trading with New England. (36) Evidence that David Thomson was a Scotsman associated with Scottish ambitions in the New World is corroborated by several of his colonial associates. Though in general, there were restrictions placed on the numbers and activities of the Scottish abroad in England. The historian P. Hume Brown wrote of tensions between the two nations, due to the Scottish King's ascendancy to the throne of England: "The spectacle of needy Scots flocking southward, appropriating wealth and capturing lucrative offices, had stirred the jealousy and wrath of all Englishmen," Brown stated. (37) David Thomson was not only a Scotsman, he was styled "Mr." and "Gentleman," which leads to the question of exactly who Mr. David Thomson, Gent. was? Why, as a Scotsman, was he allowed to remain in England? And why was he held in high esteem by the English, as well as Scottish Lords closely associated with the King, such as the Duke of Lennox, and as we shall see, by Sir William Alexander, the Earl of Stirling? Evidence of Thomson's Scottish origin is found in Chapter 6 of Edward Winslow's "Good Newes from New England," which was published in London in 1624. It is a journal of events that occured between 1622 and 1623 at Plymouth Colony. "...At the same time Captain Standish being formerly employed by the Governor to buy provisions for the refreshing of the Colony, returned with the same, accompanied with one Mr. David Tomson, a Scotchman, who also that Spring began a Plantation twenty-five leagues northeast from us, near Smiths Isles, at a place called Pascatoquack, where he liketh well..." (38) At some point, whether at Piscataqua or at Thomson's Island, David made the acquaintance of the Lord of Misrule, Thomas Morton, the arch-enemy of the Plymouth Plantation notable, Miles Standish. Morton is infamous for the 1st keg party in America. Captain Standish spied upon Morton and his companions, as they drunkenly cavorted with native Americans, during May Day celebrations at his "Merry Mount" dwelling place along the coast of the Massachusetts Bay. Morton's "New English Cannan," published in 1637 in Holland, was the 1st book banned in America. In it, Morton theorizes on the origin of the Native Americans, and also makes note of Thomson's nationality, status, education and level of sophistication. "...Therefore since I have had the approbation of Sir Christophe gardiner Knight an able gentl. that lived amongsts them & of David Thompson a Scottish gentl. that likewise was conversant with those people both Scollers and Travellers that were diligent of taking notice of these things as men of good judgement. And that have bin in those parts any time; besides others of lesse, now I am bold to conclude that the originall of the Natives of New England may be well conjectured to be from the scattered Trojans, after such time as Brutus departed from Latium." (39) Sir Ferdinando Gorges was joined in his efforts to colonize the northern portion of the eastern seaboard by the Scottish Knight, Sir William Alexander, aka the Earl of Stirling. Sir William Alexander had once been tutor to King James' son Henry, and was a favorite of the royal household. Somehow, the mystery of David Thomson's identity appears to be linked to this Scottish Lord as evidenced by a letter which is preserved by the Massachusetts Historical Society in Boston. While in England, Sir William Alexander served as Master of Requests to his Majesty for the realm of Scotland, and as Secretary of State, and as a member of the King's Privy Council. Alexander also encouraged King James in American colonization efforts. (40) In January 1626, following the death of King James 1st, Alexander assumed the role of Scottish Minister resident at Court, advising King Charles 1st "about everything Scottish, and conducting officially the correspondence of Charles with the Council in Edinburgh." (41) Through King Charles, Sir William Alexander was able to execute the American colonial plans initially developed by his father, King James; namely, a grant of territories for Nova Scotia (New Scotland) within the bounds of the Council for New England Royal Patent. This colonization effort was to be paid for through money raised by the creation of Nova Scotia Baronets. (42) By 1637, both Sir William Alexander and Sir Ferdinando Gorges were nearly bankrupt from their endeavors. About this time, meetings involving the Council for New England were sometimes held in the home of Sir Ferdinando Gorges' cousin, Lord Edward Gorges, who had been involved in the Councils affairs from the beginning. On occasions, Sir William Alexander was also in attendance. (43) On July 4, 1637, Sir William Alexander, writing as the Earl of Stirling, composed a joint letter to the Authorities of the Massachusetts Bay Company, in regard to the rights of John Thomson, heir of David Thomson, and his claim to the ownership of Thomson's Island. Alexander is joined in the letter by Lord Edward Gorges and Sir Ferdinando Gorges. In the original document, the uppermost signature is "ESterling," beneath it is "EdGorges." The bottom of the document bears the scrawled signature of Sir Ferdinando Gorges. (The Massachusetts Historical Society has indexed the document as a letter by Sir William Alexander.) The letter begins "on behalf of the heir John Thompson the sonne of David Thompson sometyme sirvant to the Councille for those affaires." The concern expressed was that John's mother, Amias, had since her marriage to another man (Maverick) allowed for the disposing of her son's rightful property (Thomson's Island) which "his Father had so hardly obtayned." (44) The accusation against Amias proved to be unfounded, as demonstrated by John's ability to reclaim the island. Though according to Aspinwall's Notarial Records, in 1640, John's stepfather, Samuel Maverick, did lend money from John's estate with his approval to fellow merchant, Thomas Fowle, and later to his son Nathaniel Maverick. However, the funds were repaid which proves that the Council Lords had worried needlessly. (45) Three years earlier, Amias Cole, widow of David Thomson, wife of Samuel Maverick wrote a letter to Robert Trelawney sometimes mayor of Plymouth, England. The letter, complete with her signature, was printed in the Trelawney Papers, Vol III of Maine Historical Society, Second Series in 1884. Nottells Island in Massachusetts Bay the 20th of November, 1635 Good Sir:- I kindly salute you in the Lord. I am given to understand by divers that my father is verie much incensed againsts me, but by what meanes I know not, and that he hath offered to make sale of his land, notwithstanding he conveyed it to me by his deed (which I doubt not but will prove sufficient,) and had of me fifty pounds in consideration of it, that so the land might remaine to me & my children after my ffathers decease. And now I am enformed that my ffather would fayne dispose of the land & repay this fifty pounds. Now my humble request unto your worship is, that as you loved my first husband, so you would be pleased to doe that favor for me and my ffatherless children as to speake to my father concerning this thing, for I am perswaded your good word to him in our behalfe will much prevaile, and whereas my father (as I am told) would dispose of the land and have mee to take the fifty pounds againe, I shall desire you to intreate him that it may remaine with him, for my children, & that he would not goe about to put the land from us contrary to his deeds and promises. As for the house which I lived in, my father gave it me presently in marriage, and I have left it wholy to his disposeing since I came thence, without haveing any benefitt of it, only to give my father content. And thus craveing pardon for my greate boldnes, not doubting but that you will be pleased to doe me this favour, wherein both I and mine shall ever rest obliged unto you, and thus with my best respects to your selfe & your loveing wife, I humby take my leave, and remaine, your ffriend. AMIAS MAVERICKE I shall intreate you to remember me kindly to Mr. Clemett. (46) Perhaps the reason Amias' father, William Cole, a prominant Plymouth shipwright and philanthropist, was "verie much incensed " against her had to do with his belief that Amias favored her second husband, Samuel Maverick, over her son by David Thomson. Cole may have shared this concern with Lord Edward and Sir Ferdinando Gorges. They, in turn, might have informed Sir William Alexander, the Earl of Stirling. And together they contacted the Massachusetts Bay authorities. My suspicion is that the concern expressed by the Gorges in the letter dated 4 July 1637 may have been politically motivated. John Thomson's loss of Thomson's Island would mean the loss of the last strong-hold the Council for New England had in the region. However, the Earl of Stirling's involvement was not with New England, only Nova Scotia and Long Island. The old Scottish knight, writing shortly before his death, may have been genuinely concerned. Stirling may have known Thomson as a young man. There is also a possibility that the Duke of Lenox, and even the King, may have known his father. Perhaps the Earl sensed that the American landed interests of his own family, plus many of the Nova Scotia Baronets, as well as the interests of the heir of one of the few Scottish Gentleman of the King James era who actively worked to establish a plantation, were about to be swallowed up by English colonial efforts. SOURCES 1. The Colonial Society of Massachusetts, Vol VI, Transactions 1899, 1900. Collection of letters relating to the early history of Yale. Jeremy Dummer to Timothy Woodbridge. 8 Oct. 1725. (Colonial Society: Boston, 1904) 2. Charles Deane. Indenture of David Thomson and Others. (Proceedings of the Massachusetts Historical Society: Boston, May 1876). p. 358. 3. "Devonshire Parish Registers." General Editor: Thos. M. Blagg, F.S.A. Vol. II. Edited by A. Terry Satterford London Issued to the Subscribers by Phillimore & Co., Ltd. 124, Chancery Lane. 1915. 4. "A Volume Relating To The Early History of Boston, Containing Aspinwall's Notarial Records, From 1644 to 1651." (Boston:1903). p. 128-130. 5. Deane. Indenture of David Thomson and Others. p. 382 6. Ibid. pp. 360-361. 7. Foundations of Colonial America. A Documentary History. Vol 1, Part 2 Northeastern Colonies. Edit. W. Kieth Kavenaugh. (Chelsea House: New York 1983) pp 515-516. 8. Foundations of Colonial America. Vol. 1, Part 1. pp 39-40. 9. Deane, Indenture of David Thomson and Others. pp. 360-361. 10. Foundations of Colonial America. Vol. 1, Part 1. pp 39-40. 11. Deane, Indenture of David Thomson and Others. pp. 360-361. 12. Ibid.. State Papers, Colonial Series 1574-1660, edited by W. Noel Sainsbury, Esq. (London 1860). (Reprint, Kraus Reprint Ltd.:Vaduz 1964). pp 31-32, 34. 13. "Diary of Walter Younge, Esq. Justice of the Peace and M.P. for Honiton, Written at Colyton and Axminster, Co. Devon, from 1604 to 1628." Edit. George Roberts. Printed for the Camden Society. (J.B. Nichols and Sons: London M.D.CCC.XL.VIII.) p. 52 14. Robert Earl Moody. A Re-Examination of the Antecedents of the Massachusetts Bay Company's Charter of 1629. Proceedings of the Massachusetts Historical Scoety. Vol LXIX. (MHS:Boston 1956) p. 59 15. Ibid. p. 60 16. Richard Arthur Preston. Georges of Plymouth Fort. (Univ. of Toronto Press: Toronto, Canada 1953) p. 220 17. Edward Raymond Turner. The Privy Council Of England in the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries. (The John Hopkins Press: Baltimore 1927) p. 149 18. John Romeyn Broadhead, Esq. Documents relative to the Colonial History of the State of New York. Vol. III ( Weed Parsons and Company: Albany, NY 1853) p. 3. 19. The Dictionary of National Biography. Edited by Sir Leslie Stephen and Sir Sidney Lee. (Oxford Univ. Press:1917) Vol. XIX. p. 107-108. 20. Christopher White. Thomas Howard, Earl of Arundel. (J. Paul Getty Museum of Art: California 1995) p. 1. 21. The Dictionary of National Biography. Vol. VIII pp.1061-62, Vol. X pp 72-3, Vol. XIX. p. 107-108. 22. Foundations of Colonial America. A Documentary History. Vol 1, Part 1. pp. 20-21. 23. Ibid. p. 22 24. Sir Ferdinando Gorges. A Brief Narration of the Original Undertakings of the Advancement of Plantations into the parts of America. Especially Shewing the beginning, progress and continuance of that of New England. Written by the Worshipfull, Sir Ferdinando Gorges, Knight and Governor of the Fort and the Island of Plymouth in Devonshire. (London: E. Brudenell, for Nath. Brook at the Angell in Corn-hill. 1658). Reprinted in "Sir Ferdinando Gorges and his province of Maine." James Phinney Baxter, editor (New York, Burt Franklin 1967). Chapter XIII, p. 75. 25. Ibid. Chapters XIX, XX. (pp. 68-69) 26. Ibid. ChapterXVIII. (p. 67) 27.. Gorges, A Brief Narration of the Original Undertakings. Chapter XXV. p. 75 28. Ibid. p. 77. 29. Charles Francis Adams, Jr. Old Planters about Boston Harbor. Proceeding of the Massachusetts Historical Society, (Boston: June 1878) pp. 194-198. 30. New England Genealogical Register, Volume 39, 1885. pp 36-37. 31. Massachusetts Historical Society Collections, 4th Ser. 4. p. 486-487 32. Deane. Indenture of David Thomson and Others. note, p. 362. See Levett, Christopher. Voyage to New England, 1623-1624. "Maine in the Age of Discovery." (Portland: Maine Historical Society 1988) p. 38. 33. Deane. Indenture of David Thomson and Others. p. 372. See Governor Bradford's Letter Book in Col. Hist. Soc. III. 63. 34. New England Historical and Genealogical Society, Vol. 9, July 1855, p. 248. 35. Ibid. 36. Crispen Gill. Plymouth, A New History. (David and Charles: Newton Abbot, Devon 1966) p. 72 37. P. Hume Brown. History of Scotland. Vol. II. (Cambridge University Press: Cambridge 1912) p. 246-247. 38. Deane, Indenture of David Thomson and Others. p. 362. 39. Thomas Morton. New English Cannan. (Holland 1637) Reprinted: (Amsterdam: Da Capo Press 1969). Chapter II, p. 40. The Register of the Privy Council of Scotland, edited by David Masson, LLD., Second Series, Vol. 1, A.D. 1625-1627. (Edinburgh: H.M. General Register House. 1899). pp. xvii, xviii, cii. 41. Ibid. 42. Ibid. pp. cii, ciii. 43. Foundations of Colonial America. A Documentary History. Vol 1, Part 2 44. 44.Facsimile: letter dated 4th July 1637, signed by Stirling, Gorges, etc., Massachusett Historical Society Manuscript Collection. See Stanley, The Four Thompsons of Boston Harbor. p. 30-32. 45. Aspinwall's Notarial Records. pp. 70. 46. Ralph E. and Matthew Thomson. David Thomson: First Yankee. Salem, Oregon 1979. p. 139 Genevieve Fraser Faculty University of Phoenix 1mackenzie at email.phoenix.edu gcfraser at peoplepc.com (978) 544-1872 (978) 846-8719 (cell) Pacific Time Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Hodgman To: Discussion list for David THOMSON & Amias COLE descendants andresearchers. Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post Lois, David and Amyes were in the New World to support the British fishing fleet. Their providing provisions and services allowed the fleet to stay off North America for the entire season. The British came to the New World for the fish before they came for religious freedom. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote: Hi All, I have two questions. I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John Aldrich. I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John. Where does John Aldrich fit in? I must be missing a daughter. I am descended from both the son, John, and the daughter, Mehitable. Who was their sibling? This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to see. Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and sending them back to England? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle? What am I missing here? Thanks for any help. Sincerely, Lois ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. 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URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/6495da28/attachment-0001.html From nancythomson at earthlink.net Sun Feb 22 22:01:28 2009 From: nancythomson at earthlink.net (Nancy Thomson) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:01:28 -0800 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: <8CB63581D480806-958-5DC@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Re: Fish There?s a recent book (available on Amazon) called Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World that explains why English sailors came to New England looking for codfish. According to the online review: ?The cod helped inspire the discovery and exploration of North America. It had a profound impact upon the economic development of New England and eastern Canada from the earliest times.? Haven?t read the book but I heard the author on the radio. As I recall, the Europeans had over-fished cod (it was a VERY popular dish then) and sailed our way looking for new sources of the valuable catch. Nancy On 2/22/09 2:57 PM, "maaisha at aol.com" wrote: > Thank you very much, Dick. I can see that the British would want an outpost > for servicing their vessels. That makes sense. The fish don't. Surely the > British had plenty of fish, and still do. Why would codfish be sent back to > England - or were they not sent back? Was it only to feed arriving sailors? > Lois > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dick Hodgman > Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 3:29 pm > Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post > > Lois, > > David and Amyes were in the New World to support the British fishing fleet. > Their providing provisions and services allowed the fleet to stay off North > America for the entire season. The British came to the New World for the fish > before they came for religious freedom. > > --Dick > ============================ > Dick Hodgman > dick at hodgman.org > http://hodgman.org/ > > > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote: >> Hi All, >> I have two questions. >> I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John >> Aldrich. I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - >> Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John. Where does John Aldrich >> fit in? I must be missing a daughter. I am descended from both the son, >> John, and the daughter, Mehitable. Who was their sibling? >> This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to >> see. Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and >> sending them back to England? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle? >> What am I missing here? >> Thanks for any help. >> Sincerely, Lois >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the > Radio Toolbar! > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tommies mailing list > > Tommies at wellswooster.com > > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > > > > Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the > Radio Toolbar > ! > > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/d07356aa/attachment.html From maaisha at aol.com Sun Feb 22 22:42:21 2009 From: maaisha at aol.com (maaisha at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:42:21 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CB637FDDF18BFE-958-1000@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com> Thank you, Nancy.? I shall get the book.? I have found it perplexing that a country with so much shoreline would need to import fish from a continent away.? Your message and the book will help me understand this. Lois -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Thomson Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:01 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post Re: Fish There?s a recent book (available on Amazon) called Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World that explains why English sailors came to New England looking for codfish. According to the online review: ?The cod helped inspire the discovery and exploration of North America. It had a profound impact upon the economic development of New England and eastern Canada from the earliest times.? Haven?t read the book but I heard the author on the radio. As I recall, the Europeans had over-fished cod (it was a VERY popular dish then) and sailed our way looking for new sources of the valuable catch. Nancy On 2/22/09 2:57 PM, "maaisha at aol.com" wrote: Thank you very much, Dick. ?I can see that the British would want an outpost for servicing their vessels. ?That makes sense. ?The fish don't. ?Surely the British had plenty of fish, and still do. ?Why would codfish be sent back to England - or were they not sent back? ?Was it only to feed arriving sailors? Lois ? -----Original Message----- From: Dick Hodgman Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post Lois, David and Amyes were in the New World to support the British fishing fleet. ?Their providing provisions and services allowed the fleet to stay off North America for the entire season. ?The British came to the New World for the fish before they came for religious freedom. ? --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM, ? wrote: Hi All, ??I have two questions. ? ??I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John Aldrich. ?I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John. ?Where does John Aldrich fit in? ?I must be missing a daughter. ?I am descended from both the son, John, and the daughter, Mehitable. ?Who was their sibling? ??This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to see. ?Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and sending them back to England? ?Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle? ?What am I missing here? ???Thanks for any help. Sincerely, ?Lois ?? ? ? Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ? _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ? Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar ! _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/24a2c780/attachment.html From vbaldwin1 at mac.com Sun Feb 22 22:48:28 2009 From: vbaldwin1 at mac.com (Virginia Thomson-Baldwin) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:48:28 -0800 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68B28CC4-AFCC-4444-9DA1-C5A7116C505B@mac.com> I've been reading the e-mails, waiting for an opportunity to make a comparison and this seems as good a time as any. "Maurice Thomson was a man of great business enterprise and much interested in public affairs. He established a fishing station in New England, erected sugar works in Barbadoes and was Governor of the East India Company in the reign of Charles the First." http://www.danbyrnes.com.au/business/business9.html How colonisation provoked the transportation of offenders: In 1620, Sir Thomas Smith (Smythe?) had been allowed to ship 20 people to the Somers Islands (Bermuda). (Within a few decades, the term "being Babadosed" came to mean being kidnapped to work on Barbados. Long later, the term was "Shanghaied"). By the 1640s, many younger people on Barbados had arrived after being kidnapped. Later, other new inhabitants included London thieves and whores, Scottish and Irish soldiers captured in Cromwell's campaigns. Cromwell did much to encourage the transportation of people deemed undesirable, but not before certain trends had earlier been set by the second Earl of Warwick, his associates, and those who answered to them. Between 1623-1624 the newly-organised Dorchester Company was granted permission by the Council of New England to fish and trade. By 1626 the company - with some members prominent Puritans - had established a settlement at Salem, promoting the idea of a Bible Commonwealth. (By 1629, the Massachusetts Bay Company was formed with a charter from the Crown. Some Levant Company men investing in Massachusetts Bay Colony included Francis Flyer, Matthew Craddock, Samuel Vassall, Nathan Wright, men already active in America trade. It is difficult not to see them co-operating with "the Rich faction". The Massachusetts Bay Company members were merchants, some fishing men of the Dorchester Company, some London merchants and some Puritan gentry. [In 1630, some seventeen English ships sailed for Massachusetts, with 1000 persons plus provisions and animal stock].) Renewed anti-Spanish feeling after the Sandys/Smythe squabble: Puritanism remained a strong theme in politics. In 1628-1629 were parliamentary confrontations with the crown over unparliamentary taxation, forced loans, arbitrary imprisonment, and Arminianism and persecution of Puritans. A political opposition grouped around the Earl of Warwick, Lord Saye and Sele, and Sir Nathaniel Rich and their colonizing ventures. Brenner, Merchants and Revolution, pp. 148ff. It would appear that Brenner is the first historian to strongly link the second Earl of Warwick with the formerly unreported extent of the trading engaged by Maurice Thomson and Thomson's associates. On Feb 22, 2009, at 7:01 PM, Nancy Thomson wrote: > Re: Fish > There?s a recent book (available on Amazon) called Cod: A Biography > of the Fish That Changed the World that explains why English > sailors came to New England looking for codfish. According to the > online review: ?The cod helped inspire the discovery and > exploration of North America. It had a profound impact upon the > economic development of New England and eastern Canada from the > earliest times.? Haven?t read the book but I heard the author on > the radio. As I recall, the Europeans had over-fished cod (it was a > VERY popular dish then) and sailed our way looking for new sources > of the valuable catch. > > Nancy > > > On 2/22/09 2:57 PM, "maaisha at aol.com" wrote: > >> Thank you very much, Dick. I can see that the British would want >> an outpost for servicing their vessels. That makes sense. The >> fish don't. Surely the British had plenty of fish, and still do. >> Why would codfish be sent back to England - or were they not sent >> back? Was it only to feed arriving sailors? >> Lois >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dick Hodgman >> Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 3:29 pm >> Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post >> >> Lois, >> >> David and Amyes were in the New World to support the British >> fishing fleet. Their providing provisions and services allowed >> the fleet to stay off North America for the entire season. The >> British came to the New World for the fish before they came for >> religious freedom. >> >> --Dick >> ============================ >> Dick Hodgman >> dick at hodgman.org >> http://hodgman.org/ >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> I have two questions. >>> I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in- >>> law, John Aldrich. I have only two children for John Thompson >>> and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, >>> John. Where does John Aldrich fit in? I must be missing a >>> daughter. I am descended from both the son, John, and the >>> daughter, Mehitable. Who was their sibling? >>> This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too >>> dense to see. Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing >>> station, drying cod and sending them back to England? Isn't that >>> like sending coal to Newcastle? What am I missing here? >>> Thanks for any help. >>> Sincerely, Lois >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. >> Get the Radio Toolbar! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tommies mailing list >> Tommies at wellswooster.com >> http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Tommies mailing list >> >> Tommies at wellswooster.com >> >> http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies >> >> >> >> Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. >> Get the Radio Toolbar > download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035> ! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tommies mailing list >> Tommies at wellswooster.com >> http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies > > _______________________________________________ > Tommies mailing list > Tommies at wellswooster.com > http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090222/9d71a109/attachment-0001.html From gcfraser at peoplepc.com Mon Feb 23 02:53:42 2009 From: gcfraser at peoplepc.com (gcfraser at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 02:53:42 -0500 Subject: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post References: <68B28CC4-AFCC-4444-9DA1-C5A7116C505B@mac.com> Message-ID: <0CB3F18A44A24EF0BE83D5170989AB7B@YOUR8E5CB830F1> Virginia, I have spent many years trying to connect David Thomson with Maurice Thompson and have found nothing except for this - David was at Cape Anne in 1625 and witnessed an altercation with Miles Standish, based on a statement he makes to the Earl of Arundel in his letter. I believe Maurice's fishing station was at Cape Anne. Maurice is related to Robert Thompson who had property in Boston for a time. His son was Sir John Thompson aka Baran Haversham. Maurice's son, Sir John married at Clerkenswell (family home of Ferdinado Gorges). But Maurice Thompson was a Puritan and hated the King. David Thomson was a King's man and a Scotsman like the King. Maurice also had a brother, Sir William who was a business associate of Samuel Maverick. Genevieve PS One genealogy lists these Thompson's as being from Ye North... (might that be Scotland? ) Other things I have found suggest the family was originally from Wales. Maurice Thompson1 M, #117697 Last Edited=19 Jun 2004 Maurice Thompson married Dorothy Vaux, daughter of John Vaux. Maurice Thompson was a very successful 'merchant adventurer', including dealing in slaves.2 He lived at Haversham, Buckinghamshire, England.1 Children of Maurice Thompson and Dorothy Vaux a.. Elizabeth Thompson+ d. b Dec 17093 b.. Sir John Thompson, 1st Baron Haversham+ b. c 1648, d. 1 Nov 17101 Maurice Thomson of Watton, Hertfordshire. Maurice Thomson was a wealthy Puritan merchant of good family and a supporter of Cromwell's Government. He was the eldest of the five sons of Robert Thomson & Elizabeth Harsnett of Watton, Hertfordshire. In 1632 the Governor of the Virginia colony recommended him, with two others, for a three year monopoly of all the tobacco grown in Virginia. He got into trouble in Canada and was fined 400 pounds which he would not pay and also was accused of poaching on Guinea Company preserves and he and his colleagues were arrested. He shipped goods to the Company of Providence Island for a few years and in 1648 was appointed a commissioner from Parliament to the States of the United Provinces to obtain contributions for the Protestants of Ireland. Upon the Restoration his connection with Cromwell was looked upon with suspicion and in 1660 he was pardoned by the king. In 1661 he and Robert, his brother were charged with giving information to the Dutch of the English Fleet. 'Maurice Thompson was always violent against kingly government, he was intimate with the Protector, sat at the High Court of Justice, and sentenced some of the beheaded lords ... he was once a poor fellow in Virginia, but got a great estate in the wars, mostly rent out of the bowels of the King's party.' Nothing came of the charge. One of his sisters Denise, married Elias Roberts, Jr. Another sister Mary/Maria Frances Thomson married Capt. William Tucker. It was Tucker who paid transport to America for Maurice's brothers, (Col.) George, Paul, (Maj.) Robert and (Sir)William in 1623. Maurice Thomson was one of the founders of the Old Poplar Chapel in 1654. In 1655 he purchased the manor and entire parish of Elsham in Lincolnshire. He married Dorothy Vaux who died about 1678. He had one son, John, later Lord Haversham, and three or four daughters. His son: A. Sir John Thompson, served in the House of Commons and, in 1696,became a Baron. ------Sir John's children: ------1-Arthur ------2-Elizabeth m. ?? Annesley ------3-Helena m. Thomas Gregory ------4-George Thompson (named by his Uncle George). ------5-Maurice, who became 2nd Baron Haversham; died 1745, ------leaving only daughters, so the baronage became extinct (Burke, ------1884). ------The children of Maurice's (2nd Baron Haversham): ------a-Hon. Elizabeth Thompson married 1724 John Carter ------b-Hon. Anne Thompson married Richard Reynolds, Esq. B. Katherine Thomson married Sir John Wittewrong at her father's house at Stepney on 4 July 1650. They had three daughters: Katherine, Anne and Helena. C. Elizabeth Thomson married Sir Joseph Alston of Chelsea and had three sons, Joseph, Edward and Maurice.. D. Mary Thomson, a member of the Dissenting congregation of Stepney, who married William Oldfield of Gatton, Surrey on 13 November 1655 and had two childen William. E. Martha Thomson married Nicholas Corsellis and had one son Nicholas. In 1650 Maurice lived at a mansion called Worcester House on Mile End Green which he sold in 1675 to the 'Church'. In 1652 he was living in Bishopsgate St. In 1672 he bought property known as the 'Vinegar Yard, Grand Alley' in Stepney. He died four years later. The will of Maurice Thomson, Haversham, Buckinghamshire, Esq., proved 9 May 1676, contained the follows (sic) (Waters): To be buried in Haversham chancel by my dear wife. To 100 poor silenced ministers. To Helena, Elizabeth and Arthur Thomson, children of my dear son Sir John Thomson, Baronet; to Katheline, Anne and Helena Wittewrong, children of my eldest daughter, Lady Katherine Wittewrong, late wife of Sir John Wittewrong, Knight and Baronet. My grandchildren William and Samuel Oldfield at 21; my brothers George, Sir William and Robert Thomson to be trustees for daughter Martha Corsellis. Her son Nicholas Corsellis at 26. Daughter Elizabeth and her husband Joseph Alston, Esq., and their three sons, Joseph, Edward and Maurice Alston. To Lady Frances, wife of Sir John Thomson. Property in England, Ireland, Barbadoes,Antego, St. Christophers, Virginia, the Carobee Islands, England and elsewhere. (My thanks to Virginia Thomson, who is researching the Thomson family, for additional material. She is working on the line of Sir William Thomson. He married in 1637, Elizabeth Warner, dau. of Samuel & Julyan/Julian (Croace)Warner and they were the parents of Sir Samuel, who fathered William, Samuel, Robert, George & Thomas. Please contact her if you think you have a connection. ----- Original Message ----- From: Virginia Thomson-Baldwin To: Tommies at wellswooster.com Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post I've been reading the e-mails, waiting for an opportunity to make a comparison and this seems as good a time as any. "Maurice Thomson was a man of great business enterprise and much interested in public affairs. He established a fishing station in New England, erected sugar works in Barbadoes and was Governor of the East India Company in the reign of Charles the First." http://www.danbyrnes.com.au/business/business9.html How colonisation provoked the transportation of offenders: In 1620, Sir Thomas Smith (Smythe?) had been allowed to ship 20 people to the Somers Islands (Bermuda). (Within a few decades, the term "being Babadosed" came to mean being kidnapped to work on Barbados. Long later, the term was "Shanghaied"). By the 1640s, many younger people on Barbados had arrived after being kidnapped. Later, other new inhabitants included London thieves and whores, Scottish and Irish soldiers captured in Cromwell's campaigns. Cromwell did much to encourage the transportation of people deemed undesirable, but not before certain trends had earlier been set by the second Earl of Warwick, his associates, and those who answered to them. Between 1623-1624 the newly-organised Dorchester Company was granted permission by the Council of New England to fish and trade. By 1626 the company - with some members prominent Puritans - had established a settlement at Salem, promoting the idea of a Bible Commonwealth. (By 1629, the Massachusetts Bay Company was formed with a charter from the Crown. Some Levant Company men investing in Massachusetts Bay Colony included Francis Flyer, Matthew Craddock, Samuel Vassall, Nathan Wright, men already active in America trade. It is difficult not to see them co-operating with "the Rich faction". The Massachusetts Bay Company members were merchants, some fishing men of the Dorchester Company, some London merchants and some Puritan gentry. [In 1630, some seventeen English ships sailed for Massachusetts, with 1000 persons plus provisions and animal stock].) Renewed anti-Spanish feeling after the Sandys/Smythe squabble: Puritanism remained a strong theme in politics. In 1628-1629 were parliamentary confrontations with the crown over unparliamentary taxation, forced loans, arbitrary imprisonment, and Arminianism and persecution of Puritans. A political opposition grouped around the Earl of Warwick, Lord Saye and Sele, and Sir Nathaniel Rich and their colonizing ventures. Brenner, Merchants and Revolution, pp. 148ff. It would appear that Brenner is the first historian to strongly link the second Earl of Warwick with the formerly unreported extent of the trading engaged by Maurice Thomson and Thomson's associates. On Feb 22, 2009, at 7:01 PM, Nancy Thomson wrote: Re: Fish There?s a recent book (available on Amazon) called Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World that explains why English sailors came to New England looking for codfish. According to the online review: ?The cod helped inspire the discovery and exploration of North America. It had a profound impact upon the economic development of New England and eastern Canada from the earliest times.? Haven?t read the book but I heard the author on the radio. As I recall, the Europeans had over-fished cod (it was a VERY popular dish then) and sailed our way looking for new sources of the valuable catch. Nancy On 2/22/09 2:57 PM, "maaisha at aol.com" wrote: Thank you very much, Dick. I can see that the British would want an outpost for servicing their vessels. That makes sense. The fish don't. Surely the British had plenty of fish, and still do. Why would codfish be sent back to England - or were they not sent back? Was it only to feed arriving sailors? Lois -----Original Message----- From: Dick Hodgman Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [Tommies] John Thompson and David's fishing post Lois, David and Amyes were in the New World to support the British fishing fleet. Their providing provisions and services allowed the fleet to stay off North America for the entire season. The British came to the New World for the fish before they came for religious freedom. --Dick ============================ Dick Hodgman dick at hodgman.org http://hodgman.org/ On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM, wrote: Hi All, I have two questions. I noticed in John Thompson's will, that he mentions his son-in-law, John Aldrich. I have only two children for John Thompson and Sarah Trevore - Mehitable Thompson Hayward (Haywood) and son, John. Where does John Aldrich fit in? I must be missing a daughter. I am descended from both the son, John, and the daughter, Mehitable. Who was their sibling? This second question must have an obvious answer than I am too dense to see. Why was David Thomson setting up a fishing station, drying cod and sending them back to England? Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle? What am I missing here? Thanks for any help. Sincerely, Lois ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Tommies mailing list Tommies at wellswooster.com http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/mailman/listinfo/tommies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.hostedbyisg.com/pipermail/tommies/attachments/20090223/dc491982/attachment-0001.html